[EnemyCombatant]

This was a part of the Military Funding Bill.

Need I say more.

[k_semler]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ArimoDave', 'I') thought that internal passports were unconstitutional in the US -- in spite of what congress wants to pass. I hope that this will be resoundingly defeated by the US Supreme Court. Otherwise, this may be the breaking point for many. Civil war -- overthrow of the US Government? The so called Patriot Act was first, now this!!! Some are going to be pushed over the edge with this one. I'm not there yet, but getting closer. I can see the ground below.

[merecat]

well said k_semler!

[PO_TimeCr0ss]

I never new Albert said that... (Probably associated with the guilt he felt after the use of the Atom bomb over Japan)

[k_semler]

ABC Radio just stated that Bush has signed this bill. It is now officially law.

[arretium]

I was also disappointed that this measure passed in the defense bill. But I wouldn't freak out about this issue just yet. A state gov't requirement to prove that people getting driver's licenses are U.S. citizens on the basis of national security has some legal merit for the Federal gov't on the basis of national security, but that's not necessarily the problem here. The legal argument for national security has weight, so Congress has power to legislate on the issue. The real problem is the constitutional basis for requiring states to follow Federal mandates. This area of law has a far murkier history.

The Fed has very limited tools to require the state to act on its own behalf. Chiefl, the Fed has the spending power at thats about it. There's some limited basis of Federal requirements with respect to the 14th and 15th amendment, but those chiefly correspond to civil rights, and not Federal authority. I haven't look at the language of the bill, and I ought to, but absence an attachment to the "carrot", there is no authority for the Federal gov't to require the states to do anything. I'd look for this provision to head to the courts very quickly. With all of the Federal budget cuts to states, I'd be hard pressed to find any state gov'ts (D or R) saying "Yes Sir" to a new federal mandate. In my view, unless the courts take a right turn and start constitutionalizing Federal encroachment, this provision is DOA.

[k_semler]

Ihre Papiere, Kamerad? Zeigen Sie mir Ihre Papiere!

That is what I am worried we are now reduced to. The government has been given the way to do this via this bill, and the way I feel it will be done is immediately after another terrorist attack. The sheeple will then be demanding that all traffic is regulated, and we can kiss our previous right to free travel, (and free association), good bye. Imagine if a tanker truck full of ANFO were to be blown sky high in downtown LA, at the white house, at a petroleum refinery, or even Hoover dam. The public would be crying for government intervention to prevent such another attack, and the restriction of as many rights as necessary to give us a feeling of security. History has shown that when a government assumes a power, that the power is not voluntarily relinquished to the people.

Giving the government extra powers "temporarily" is like giving a loan to a homeless drunkard. You probably will not get your money back, so you might as well consider it a gift. If you are returned the money, it is a welcome surprise that was not expected. However, if you expect repayment, you will be disappointed.


"Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberty for the promise of a little temporary security, deserve neither."
--Benjamin Franklin

[arretium]

Ok. I just went and too a look at the statute. It passes constitutional muster because it only requires states to meet the standard if the state wants to allow the person holding the id to access a Federal building. Pretty cleverly written.
I'd attach the URL, but the congress.gov shows the link as "temporary", so if I provided it, it probably won't be there in a could of days. If you want to read the statute, I'd recommend it, just go the congress.gov and type in "Real ID Act".

Here's a look at some of the provisions, with my comments in bold:
SEC. 202. MINIMUM DOCUMENT REQUIREMENTS AND ISSUANCE STANDARDS FOR FEDERAL RECOGNITION.
(a) Minimum Standards for Federal Use-
(1) IN GENERAL- Beginning 3 years after the date of the enactment of this Act , a Federal agency may not accept, for any official purpose, a driver's license or identification card issued by a State to any person unless the State is meeting the requirements of this section.
This is just the time period the states have to ramp up.

(2) STATE CERTIFICATIONS- The Secretary shall determine whether a State is meeting the requirements of this section based on certifications made by the State to the Secretary of Transportation. Such certifications shall be made at such times and in such manner as the Secretary of Transportation, in consultation with the Secretary of Homeland Security, may prescribe by regulation.
(b) Minimum Document Requirements- To meet the requirements of this section, a State shall include, at a minimum, the following information and features on each driver's license and identification card issued to a person by the State:
(1) The person's full legal name.
(2) The person's date of birth.
(3) The person's gender.
(4) The person's driver's license or identification card number.
(5) A digital photograph of the person.
(6) The person's address of principle residence.
(7) The person's signature.
(8) Physical security features designed to prevent tampering, counterfeiting, or duplication of the document for fraudulent purposes.
(9) A common machine-readable technology, with defined minimum data elements.
Section 8-9 are somewhat ambiguous on its face. Here's where DHS rulemaking comes in. I've heard talk about a RFID chip. That could be a rule promulgated via DHS. I could see the statutory basis for this rule via (8) and (9).

(c) Minimum Issuance Standards-
(1) IN GENERAL- To meet the requirements of this section, a State shall require, at a minimum, presentation and verification of the following information before issuing a driver's license or identification card to a person:
(A) A photo identity document, except that a non-photo identity document is acceptable if it includes both the person's full legal name and date of birth.
(B) Documentation showing the person's date of birth.
(C) Proof of the person's social security account number or verification that the person is not eligible for a social security account number.
(D) Documentation showing the person's name and address of principal residence.
No homeless? What happens when people move?

(2) SPECIAL REQUIREMENTS-
(A) IN GENERAL- To meet the requirements of this section, a State shall comply with the minimum standards of this paragraph.
(B) EVIDENCE OF LAWFUL STATUS- A State shall require, before issuing a driver's license or identification card to a person, valid documentary evidence that the person--
(i) is a citizen of the United States;
(ii) is an alien lawfully admitted for permanent or temporary residence in the United States;
(iii) has conditional permanent resident status in the United States;
(iv) has an approved application for asylum in the United States or has entered into the United States in refugee status;
(v) has a valid, unexpired nonimmigrant visa or nonimmigrant visa status for entry into the United States;
(vi) has a pending application for asylum in the United States;
(vii) has a pending or approved application for temporary protected status in the United States;
(viii) has approved deferred action status; or
(ix) has a pending application for adjustment of status to that of an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence in the United States or conditional permanent resident status in the United States.

(C) TEMPORARY DRIVERS' LICENSES AND IDENTIFICATION CARDS-
(i) IN GENERAL- If a person presents evidence under any of clauses (v) through (ix) of subparagraph (B), the State may only issue a temporary driver's license or temporary identification card to the person.
(ii) EXPIRATION DATE- A temporary driver's license or temporary identification card issued pursuant to this subparagraph shall be valid only during the period of time of the applicant's authorized stay in the United States or, if there is no definite end to the period of authorized stay, a period of one year.
(iii) DISPLAY OF EXPIRATION DATE- A temporary driver's license or temporary identification card issued pursuant to this subparagraph shall clearly indicate that it is temporary and shall state the date on which it expires.
(iv) RENEWAL- A temporary driver's license or temporary identification card issued pursuant to this subparagraph may be renewed only upon presentation of valid documentary evidence that the status by which the applicant qualified for the temporary driver's license or temporary identification card has been extended by the Secretary of Homeland Security.
(3) VERIFICATION OF DOCUMENTS- To meet the requirements of this section, a State shall implement the following procedures:
(A) Before issuing a driver's license or identification card to a person, the State shall verify, with the issuing agency, the issuance, validity, and completeness of each document required to be presented by the person under paragraph (1) or (2).
(B) The State shall not accept any foreign document, other than an official passport, to satisfy a requirement of paragraph (1) or (2).
(C) Not later than September 11, 2005, the State shall enter into a memorandum of understanding with the Secretary of Homeland Security to routinely utilize the automated system known as Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements, as provided for by section 404 of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (110 Stat. 3009-664), to verify the legal presence status of a person, other than a United States citizen, applying for a driver's license or identification card.
(d) Other Requirements- To meet the requirements of this section, a State shall adopt the following practices in the issuance of drivers' licenses and identification cards:
(1) Employ technology to capture digital images of identity source documents so that the images can be retained in electronic storage in a transferable format.
(2) Retain paper copies of source documents for a minimum of 7 years or images of source documents presented for a minimum of 10 years.
(3) Subject each person applying for a driver's license or identification card to mandatory facial image capture.
(4) Establish an effective procedure to confirm or verify a renewing applicant's information.
(5) Confirm with the Social Security Administration a social security account number presented by a person using the full social security account number. In the event that a social security account number is already registered to or associated with another person to which any State has issued a driver's license or identification card, the State shall resolve the discrepancy and take appropriate action.
(6) Refuse to issue a driver's license or identification card to a person holding a driver's license issued by another State without confirmation that the person is terminating or has terminated the driver's license.
(7) Ensure the physical security of locations where drivers' licenses and identification cards are produced and the security of document materials and papers from which drivers' licenses and identification cards are produced.
(8) Subject all persons authorized to manufacture or produce drivers' licenses and identification cards to appropriate security clearance requirements.
Federal security clearance?

(9) Establish fraudulent document recognition training programs for appropriate employees engaged in the issuance of drivers' licenses and identification cards.
(10) Limit the period of validity of all driver's licenses and identification cards that are not temporary to a period that does not exceed 8 years.

SEC. 203. LINKING OF DATABASES.
(a) In General- To be eligible to receive any grant or other type of financial assistance made available under this title, a State shall participate in the interstate compact regarding sharing of driver license data, known as the `Driver License Agreement', in order to provide electronic access by a State to information contained in the motor vehicle databases of all other States.
(b) Requirements for Information- A State motor vehicle database shall contain, at a minimum, the following information:
(1) All data fields printed on drivers' licenses and identification cards issued by the State.
(2) Motor vehicle drivers' histories, including motor vehicle violations, suspensions, and points on licenses.
How far back??

[k_semler]

Do you think the gestopo ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H authorities would get the message if I used an actual passport as a valid form of ID and stopped at truckstops to get it stamped? Or would this be a waste of $97.00?

[Daculling]

Hey UK, the US now wants to expand the National IDs to your country. What do ya say?

US/UK IDs

[ArimoDave]

From the Article:$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')r Chertoff also proposed that British citizens wishing to visit the US should consider entering a "Trusted Traveller" scheme. Under this, they would forward their details to the US embassy to be vetted. If successful, they would receive a document allowing "fast- tracking" through the US immigration system.

[k_semler]

Oceania= US, Canada, Mexico, Central America, Great Britan= NAFTA & CAFTA
Eurasia= The EU & Russia
Eastasia=China & Allies.

Every bloc undermines individual civil liberties, and is in a constant state of war or political struggle. Each bloc propagandaizes its populus to believe "I know I am Free". Each bloc eliminates threat to the superstate by mock trials, false imprisonments, and ridicule. Each bloc imposes "arms control" in order to reduce the ability of the population to engage in a massive uprising, therefore securing the perpetual power grip each bloc has. Osama Bin Laden's resembelance to Goldstien is remarkably similar, both occasionally appear in propaganda videos to strike fear and hatred into the hearts of men, yet no action is taken on thier behalf. Political Correctness has become the predicted "NewSpeak", reducing the amount of acceptible vocabulary each passing year.

That is just sad, George Orwell's 1984 is occuring already, and the sheeple are buying into it hook, line and sinker. We are destined to become a replica of 1984 unless we are willing to take matters into our own hands, unfortunatly, the American people have lost not only the abilty to regain thier lost freedoms, but also the will to do so. Weapons will serve no use unless there exists an intestinal fortitude to use them in defence of Liberty.

This urge for pure liberty has been driven out of the sheeple over the last 60 years with propaganda film after propaganda film. The people now think of war as a magnificant show that takes place on CNN, with no reality of the finality of death, and the sacrifice of the men that ensured our freedom that we are now conveniently disposing of. We are told what to think, when to think it, and how to think it by the media. It is enforced by the permiating PC culture that has developed in America, and it will only become worse. I honestly expect to live to see the day when ThinkCrime is actually an enforcable crime against the state.

I don't know what is more sad, the fact that it will happen as foretold in 1984, or that the population are such willing participants in the process. At least in the novel, it was an atomic war that initiated the restriction of freedoms, while here in meatspace, it only took the collapsing of 2 economic symbols. I think the people in the novel actually had more balls than the actual people who exist. At least there was a significant proportion of dissenters that room 101 actually existed. In meatspace, Room 101 is Guantanamo Bay. Welcome to 1984.

WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS PEACE
BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU.

(but it is for our own good though, right?)

[ForeignObserver]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ey UK, the US now wants to expand the National IDs to your country. What do ya say? US/UK IDs

[Starvid]

Bah, we have had national id-cards for a hundred years and everything has been just fine.

[smallpoxgirl]

In all fairness Starvid, you don't live in the US. Creeping facism may well be more part of our reality than yours. Do you think Sweden would elect Dubya?

Course if you Swedes don't tow the line, you could always be the next contestant in the war on terrorism(and/or war on tyranny). We're always looking for more states.

[EnemyCombatant]

Also, realize that the time very well may come when they take advantage of the ID card system. The important point is that it's in place and it's a precursor to the chip. link

[Starvid]

The US is a hundred times more free than Sweden. During the latest 100 years, one party has been in power for 88 years - the Social Democrats. Hopefully we will throw them out in the 2006 election.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', 'T')he US is a hundred times more free than Sweden.

[Starvid]

edit: Really, there are more important things to worry about, like the Patriot Act. That one sucks major ass (to quote Kyle in South Park).

[EnemyCombatant]

I hate to morph the thread, but the chip is the endgame.

Think I've gone sci fi on you. Not!

You can google it, or I can provide information. I'm just not sure if this thread is the place for this type of information.

Regards.