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THE US Postal Service Thread (merged)

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Re: US Postal Service Warns It Could Default

Postby americandream » Wed 10 Aug 2011, 01:00:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', 'W')ith the net, UPS, FEDEX, etc. It is time to consider eliminating the post office. If it can't turn a profit, yet commercial companies can, why keep it around? Of course my Netflix subscription might go up. :(


I suspect it will be sold off in due course.
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Re: US Postal Service Warns It Could Default

Postby argyle » Wed 10 Aug 2011, 02:10:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', 'W')ith the net, UPS, FEDEX, etc. It is time to consider eliminating the post office. If it can't turn a profit, yet commercial companies can, why keep it around? Of course my Netflix subscription might go up. :(


If the mail is going to be privatized, I would at least want guarantees that the same service is offered by whomever is taking over.

It's all nice for companies to compete with the post office for the "cash cows" (mail from companies, advertisement, packages, etc), but not invest and maintain a minimum of service for all the regular ppl ,where ever they might be (in site, suburbs, sticks,..), for just a small number of letters/packages.. which is hardly profitable.

I strongly believe that government should not run, but at least own a majority of shares in companies that provide essential services (electricity, water, sewers, mail, telephone,..)
They could still be run as a private company (independent board, mgmt, etc) but if the main shareholder is the government, that government can/will have a say in things when the company is cutting too many services, focusing too much on profit. (a healthy company, but not a greedy company). If we valued ppl as much as we did profits, I'm pretty sure that a lot of jobs would now still be on US soil..
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Re: US Postal Service Warns It Could Default

Postby careinke » Wed 10 Aug 2011, 03:10:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('argyle', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', 'W')ith the net, UPS, FEDEX, etc. It is time to consider eliminating the post office. If it can't turn a profit, yet commercial companies can, why keep it around? Of course my Netflix subscription might go up. :(


If the mail is going to be privatized, I would at least want guarantees that the same service is offered by whomever is taking over.

It's all nice for companies to compete with the post office for the "cash cows" (mail from companies, advertisement, packages, etc), but not invest and maintain a minimum of service for all the regular ppl ,where ever they might be (in site, suburbs, sticks,..), for just a small number of letters/packages.. which is hardly profitable.

I strongly believe that government should not run, but at least own a majority of shares in companies that provide essential services (electricity, water, sewers, mail, telephone,..)
They could still be run as a private company (independent board, mgmt, etc) but if the main shareholder is the government, that government can/will have a say in things when the company is cutting too many services, focusing too much on profit. (a healthy company, but not a greedy company). If we valued ppl as much as we did profits, I'm pretty sure that a lot of jobs would now still be on US soil..


It seems to me it would be cheaper to provide people with internet access than postal service. Cheaper and more useful.
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Re: US Postal Service Warns It Could Default

Postby Outcast_Searcher » Wed 10 Aug 2011, 08:54:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '
')It seems to me it would be cheaper to provide people with internet access than postal service. Cheaper and more useful.

Sounds right.

And probably much better for the planet to go to an electronic system (which most of us already have anyway) instead of carting 60 bazillion tons of daily paper around that mostly ends up in landfills -- perhaps after an energy intensive recycling pass or two.

But if we must have a U.S. Postal system for "critical" documents requiring real signatures, legal stamps, etc, then let's at least be practical about it.

Why is subsidizing stamps for everybody to a completely nonrealistic rate necessary? Why is the lower 48 subsidizing the 44 cent stamp in Alaska, for example? Allowing some sort of low cost vs. high cost zones would help a lot.

It's not hard to envision local letter sent within a New York borough costing a dime, and from, say Florida to Alaska costing 5 bucks, and perhaps only arriving twice a week -- in an economically viable system.

Also, why are the business mailings (i.e. catalogs, etc) subsidized to such a large extent? This subsidy should be gradually eliminated. I'll bet 99% of junk mail is discarded unused. I'll get over 90% is unread (only glanced at to verify it is worthless). What a GREAT value to subsidize! :roll:

Since the postal service objectively provides the most unreliable service among the major carriers of packages (such carriers aren't ALLOWED to compete for normal mail) -- I can't see carrying this albatross around for further decades while it is losing lots of money, just for arbitrary subsidies that result in economic and energy wastage.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: US Postal Service Warns It Could Default

Postby Cloud9 » Wed 10 Aug 2011, 10:04:03

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Re: US Postal Service Warns It Could Default

Postby basil_hayden » Wed 10 Aug 2011, 16:03:28

Keep in mind that as the Postal Service, at least in my experience for example, has deferred maintenance to the point that every underground fuel tank they ever had is or was leaking and I can't wait to see the ultimate bill for that.
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Post office verging on default, may shut down this winter

Postby Sixstrings » Mon 05 Sep 2011, 04:43:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Postal Service Is Nearing Default as Losses Mount

The United States Postal Service has long lived on the financial edge, but it has never been as close to the precipice as it is today: the agency is so low on cash that it will not be able to make a $5.5 billion payment due this month and may have to shut down entirely this winter unless Congress takes emergency action to stabilize its finances.

“Our situation is extremely serious,” the postmaster general, Patrick R. Donahoe, said in an interview. “If Congress doesn’t act, we will default.”

In recent weeks, Mr. Donahoe has been pushing a series of painful cost-cutting measures to erase the agency’s deficit, which will reach $9.2 billion this fiscal year. They include eliminating Saturday mail delivery, closing up to 3,700 postal locations and laying off 120,000 workers — nearly one-fifth of the agency’s work force — despite a no-layoffs clause in the unions’ contracts.

The post office’s problems stem from one hard reality: it is being squeezed on both revenue and costs.

As any computer user knows, the Internet revolution has led to people and businesses sending far less conventional mail.

At the same time, decades of contractual promises made to unionized workers, including no-layoff clauses, are increasing the post office’s costs. Labor represents 80 percent of the agency’s expenses, compared with 53 percent at United Parcel Service and 32 percent at FedEx, its two biggest private competitors. Postal workers also receive more generous health benefits than most other federal employees.

The Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee will hold a hearing on the agency’s predicament on Tuesday. So far, feuding Democrats and Republicans in Congress, still smarting from the brawl over the federal debt ceiling, have failed to agree on any solutions. It doesn’t help that many of the options for saving the postal service are politically unpalatable.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/05/business/in-internet-age-postal-service-struggles-to-stay-solvent-and-relevant.html?_r=1#h


I wonder if that's a misprint, they surely don't have a $9 billion budget deficit every year. If so, just do the math.. in ten years that's a $90 billion debt. If their annual deficit is 9 bil, I wonder what their total debt is? 8O

So anyhow.. looks like they need a bailout.. even after canceling sat delivery and laying off 120,000 employees they're still defaulting. What I don't get is.. why not just raise prices.. they're a darn monopoly, at least on junk mail and bills and letters from grandma. They could raise first class stamp to $1, a dollar to mail a letter sounds reasonable, and voila problem solved.
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Re: Post office verging on default, may shut down this wint

Postby Cog » Mon 05 Sep 2011, 07:41:36

They also have a bloated pay scale and huge legacy health care costs.

Lets fire the 120,000 employees and cut Saturday delivery first, then we can discuss a bailout. I like my cuts first and my bailouts(if required) last.
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Re: Post office verging on default, may shut down this wint

Postby Cloud9 » Mon 05 Sep 2011, 08:32:16

This might help explain some of their budget problems.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/03/05/postal ... index.html
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Re: Post office verging on default, may shut down this wint

Postby nobodypanic » Mon 05 Sep 2011, 10:22:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'T')hey also have a bloated pay scale and huge legacy health care costs.

Lets fire the 120,000 employees and cut Saturday delivery first, then we can discuss a bailout. I like my cuts first and my bailouts(if required) last.

bloated compared only to the slave-labor rates that everyone else is willing to offer.

their problem is that e-mail has dealt them a blow, which, unless serious measures are taken, will be fatal.

there are lots of things we can do. but the real question is, how much does society value (or need) this service given the new technological reality? so, how important is mail delivery to you? after we establish that, then we can figure things out.
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Re: Post office verging on default, may shut down this wint

Postby Lore » Mon 05 Sep 2011, 10:31:49

Another sign of automation and technology replacing traditional jobs. As government employees get whacked around the country, we can expect a surge in a new round of unemployed workers with useless skills. The 120,000 well paid workers that will be let go and the ripple effect just puts another hole in any economic recovery.
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Re: Post office verging on default, may shut down this wint

Postby dsula » Mon 05 Sep 2011, 11:43:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nobodypanic', '
')their problem is that e-mail has dealt them a blow, which, unless serious measures are taken, will be fatal.
.

No, e-mail and internet made shop-at-home possible. Fedex & UPS are doing pretty good. Could have been USPS. But they have a nasty habit of loosing packages.
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Re: Post office verging on default, may shut down this wint

Postby peeker01 » Mon 05 Sep 2011, 11:47:07

I'll bet UPS is working on a plan right now to privatize the Post Office.

Mail delivery on M-W-F, ban the useless junk mail nobody reads, kill the pensions, 401K for all employees. Job rotation to avoid burnout, upward mobility to other UPS jobs.

One less expensive, failing, government agency. FAA and the Park Service is next!
Last edited by peeker01 on Mon 05 Sep 2011, 11:55:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Post office verging on default, may shut down this wint

Postby Cog » Mon 05 Sep 2011, 11:52:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'A')nother sign of automation and technology replacing traditional jobs. As government employees get whacked around the country, we can expect a surge in a new round of unemployed workers with useless skills. The 120,000 well paid workers that will be let go and the ripple effect just puts another hole in any economic recovery.


Good. You can look at bills and pay them online. The utility of snail mail is rapidly becoming that of buggy whips.

The more government mooch class layoffs, the more I like the budgetary bottom line. Let those government workers try paying a big chunk of their medical and fund their own pensions like the rest of us in the private sector have done for years.

Close the postal system down and sell the remains to whoever wants to buy them. If something paper needs to go somewhere you can use Fedex and pay the real costs instead of subsidizing this failure any further.
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Re: Post office verging on default, may shut down this wint

Postby PrestonSturges » Mon 05 Sep 2011, 11:54:08

I guess we can't even afford Kevin Costner on a donkey.

The GOP is moving us into a post-apocalypse economy without the fuss of an actual crisis.
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Re: Post office verging on default, may shut down this wint

Postby nobodypanic » Mon 05 Sep 2011, 11:57:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('peeker01', 'I')'ll bet UPS is working on a plan right now to privatize the Post Office. Mail delivery on
M-W-F, ban the useless junk mail nobody reads, kill the pensions, 401K for all employees. Job
rotation to avoid burnout, upward mobility to other UPS jobs. One less expensive, failing,
government agency. FAA and the Park Service is next!

1st no self-respecting capitalist postal entity would ban the cash cow of junk-mail.

2nd no capitalist entity will provide services in areas that are not profitable - so very small market areas, e.g., small town america, very rural areas, etc. could kiss the service they have been accustomed to for over a century g'bye.
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Re: Post office verging on default, may shut down this wint

Postby dsula » Mon 05 Sep 2011, 12:01:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nobodypanic', '
')2nd no capitalist entity will provide services in areas that are not profitable - so very small market areas, e.g., small town america, very rural areas, etc. could kiss the service they have been accustomed to for over a century g'bye.

I live rural, and yet UPS stops by frequently. I can even ask them to pick up the stuff I need to send.
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Re: Post office verging on default, may shut down this wint

Postby PrestonSturges » Mon 05 Sep 2011, 12:24:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nobodypanic', '1')st no self-respecting capitalist postal entity would ban the cash cow of junk-mail.
2nd no capitalist entity will provide services in areas that are not profitable - so very small market areas, e.g., small town america, very rural areas, etc. could kiss the service they have been accustomed to for over a century g'bye.

Funny how rural delivery wasn't an unbearable burden when everything was rural.
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Re: Post office verging on default, may shut down this wint

Postby Fishman » Mon 05 Sep 2011, 12:36:03

"The GOP is moving us into a post-apocalypse economy without the fuss of an actual crisis."

So you're saying, without even knowing it, the GOP is handling the post peak oil scenario, or "powering down" I think its called. Bravo.
We knew all along those living on unicorn dreams of hope and change would be clueless when the post peak oil "post-apocalypse economy " came along. Dang, reality sux
Obama, the FUBAR presidency gets scraped off the boot
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Re: Post office verging on default, may shut down this wint

Postby Pretorian » Mon 05 Sep 2011, 12:48:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'F')unny how rural delivery wasn't an unbearable burden when everything was rural.

Well I guess at that time they were actually paying for it? They still have this option open you know.
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