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THE US Postal Service Thread (merged)

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Re: Post office verging on default, may shut down this wint

Unread postby gollum » Tue 06 Sep 2011, 01:42:39

I think Tea Party people are having a good time gloating about the trouble of the post office, but as things go down hill I expect other shippers to eventually have problems too, and if the grid becomes less than dependable we'll be glad for the post office.
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Re: Post office verging on default, may shut down this wint

Unread postby Expatriot » Tue 06 Sep 2011, 08:41:24

Here's what they oughtta do to "fix" the system:

1. Go to every other day delivery and let private companies handle next day issues.
2. Fire half the staff.
3. Lower private mail rates by 50%.
4. Make it a merit based system where there are incentives to deliver the mail faster and better.
5. Raise junk mail rates by 10% and make the junk mail system an "opt in" system, to be renewed annually.

Do those things and it will be fine.

The USPS is a victim of govt and union stupidity.

They have a "no layoff" clause in the current contract? AHahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahah.

Bet the folks in the private sector would love to have that Marxist guarantee.
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Re: Post office verging on default, may shut down this wint

Unread postby Expatriot » Tue 06 Sep 2011, 08:55:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', 'I') think Tea Party people are having a good time gloating about the trouble of the post office, but as things go down hill I expect other shippers to eventually have problems too


No doubt. And, as a result and unlike the govt. piglets running the post office, they will fire staff, keep better people, find new ways to cut costs, and adapt.
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Re: Post office verging on default, may shut down this wint

Unread postby gollum » Tue 06 Sep 2011, 09:22:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Expatriot', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', 'I') think Tea Party people are having a good time gloating about the trouble of the post office, but as things go down hill I expect other shippers to eventually have problems too


No doubt. And, as a result and unlike the govt. piglets running the post office, they will fire staff, keep better people, find new ways to cut costs, and adapt.



Adapt to what, you really think in a long term decline people will keep getting useless shit sent to their homes via UPS and FedEx? Your axe grinding on the unions and government obscures your vision of the true problems.
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Re: Post office verging on default, may shut down this wint

Unread postby furrybill » Tue 06 Sep 2011, 20:07:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')
So anyhow.. looks like they need a bailout.. even after canceling sat delivery and laying off 120,000 employees they're still defaulting. What I don't get is.. why not just raise prices.. they're a darn monopoly, at least on junk mail and bills and letters from grandma. They could raise first class stamp to $1, a dollar to mail a letter sounds reasonable, and voila problem solved.


This is a good example of what I like to call American whinitis. If you've ever lived in other countries you'll realize quickly that the USPS is one of the world's most efficient and cheap postal systems. When you consider how geographically huge America is, how large a population it has, and how much mail has to be processed, keeping stamps under a dollar is downright amazing, especially when you consider how quickly the mail moves and how constantly it is delivered.

But no, at the first sign of fiscal problems some idiots think we should privatize it, wipe out the unions [IMHO they're underpaid already, why make it worse?] etc.

Americans seem totally incapable of appreciating what they have and doubly incapable of realizing what its worth. I agree 100% with Sixstrings. Raise the cost of postage for cripes sake, it's worth it!
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Re: Post office verging on default, may shut down this wint

Unread postby Cog » Tue 06 Sep 2011, 23:38:57

Cut 120K from their bloated unionized staff and I'll n happy to entertain an increase in postage. Cuts first is the cry from the tax payers. You progressives would be wise to listen to this cry before you embarrass yourself in 2012 like you did in 2010.
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Re: Post office verging on default, may shut down this wint

Unread postby Cog » Tue 06 Sep 2011, 23:41:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Expatriot', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', 'I') think Tea Party people are having a good time gloating about the trouble of the post office, but as things go down hill I expect other shippers to eventually have problems too


No doubt. And, as a result and unlike the govt. piglets running the post office, they will fire staff, keep better people, find new ways to cut costs, and adapt.



Adapt to what, you really think in a long term decline people will keep getting useless shit sent to their homes via UPS and FedEx? Your axe grinding on the unions and government obscures your vision of the true problems.


Are you going to tell me the real problem is we aren't taxing the rich enough? Thanks but the voters have heard this meme before and aren't buying it.
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Re: Post office verging on default, may shut down this wint

Unread postby gollum » Wed 07 Sep 2011, 00:04:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Expatriot', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', 'I') think Tea Party people are having a good time gloating about the trouble of the post office, but as things go down hill I expect other shippers to eventually have problems too


No doubt. And, as a result and unlike the govt. piglets running the post office, they will fire staff, keep better people, find new ways to cut costs, and adapt.



Adapt to what, you really think in a long term decline people will keep getting useless shit sent to their homes via UPS and FedEx? Your axe grinding on the unions and government obscures your vision of the true problems.


Are you going to tell me the real problem is we aren't taxing the rich enough? Thanks but the voters have heard this meme before and aren't buying it.



Nope, no axe to grind tonight and although I'd tax the hell out of the rich that's not the problem with the post office, they were just the weakest of the three (the others being UPS and Fedex) because they made so much revenue from letters (at one time). I don't think the "free market" will be any kinder to the private mail carriers given time. I'd hate to see the post office dissappear becaues as things get crappier and eventually the internet and grid start to become less dependable it would be a good thing for people to get information back and forth the old fashioned way.
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Re: Post office verging on default, may shut down this wint

Unread postby Expatriot » Fri 09 Sep 2011, 20:37:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Expatriot', 'N')o doubt. And, as a result and unlike the govt. piglets running the post office, they will fire staff, keep better people, find new ways to cut costs, and adapt.

Adapt to what, you really think in a long term decline people will keep getting useless shit sent to their homes via UPS and FedEx?


Of course they will! People have been buying all manner of useless crap since useless crap was first invented. It'll be delivered via train in the somewhat near future, but it will be delivered.

And better by a private company than the inept government.
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Re: Post office verging on default, may shut down this wint

Unread postby Expatriot » Fri 09 Sep 2011, 20:39:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', 'i')t would be a good thing for people to get information back and forth the old fashioned way.

I find it fascinating that you seem to believe both that:

1. The govt. is the only entity that could deliver mail.
and
2. The govt. can do things better than private companies for services like delivering mail.

Both tremendous.
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Re: Post office verging on default, may shut down this wint

Unread postby gollum » Fri 09 Sep 2011, 21:13:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Expatriot', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', 'i')t would be a good thing for people to get information back and forth the old fashioned way.

I find it fascinating that you seem to believe both that:

1. The govt. is the only entity that could deliver mail.
and
2. The govt. can do things better than private companies for services like delivering mail.

Both tremendous.



The Post Office is one of the few federal agencies that is explicitly authorised by the constitution, not every function of government should be privatized.


Article I, Section 8, Clause 7 of the United States Constitution, known as the Postal Clause or the Postal Power, empowers Congress "To establish Post Offices and post Roads"
Last edited by gollum on Fri 09 Sep 2011, 21:17:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Post office verging on default, may shut down this wint

Unread postby peeker01 » Fri 09 Sep 2011, 21:15:35

Only the failing ones.
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Re: Post office verging on default, may shut down this wint

Unread postby gollum » Fri 09 Sep 2011, 21:18:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('peeker01', 'O')nly the failing ones.




Hey give me a yell when the departments of homeland security and defense cut a profit.
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Re: Post office verging on default, may shut down this wint

Unread postby peeker01 » Fri 09 Sep 2011, 21:31:35

Since the post office was reorganized in 1971 into a corporation independent of the federal
government they have a different status than the agencies you mentioned. Not to worry,
I heard obama is going to give them some of that Solyndra money they have sitting around
to study green mail delivery.
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Re: Post office verging on default, may shut down this wint

Unread postby gollum » Fri 09 Sep 2011, 21:47:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Expatriot', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Expatriot', 'N')o doubt. And, as a result and unlike the govt. piglets running the post office, they will fire staff, keep better people, find new ways to cut costs, and adapt.

Adapt to what, you really think in a long term decline people will keep getting useless shit sent to their homes via UPS and FedEx?


Of course they will! People have been buying all manner of useless crap since useless crap was first invented. It'll be delivered via train in the somewhat near future, but it will be delivered.

And better by a private company than the inept government.



I think in a time of economic collapse the consumption of "useless crap" will be fairly constrained.
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Re: Post office verging on default, may shut down this wint

Unread postby gollum » Sat 10 Sep 2011, 12:54:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('peeker01', 'S')ince the post office was reorganized in 1971 into a corporation independent of the federal
government they have a different status than the agencies you mentioned. Not to worry,
I heard obama is going to give them some of that Solyndra money they have sitting around
to study green mail delivery.



It's pathetic that the tea party instead of blaming the bloated military industrial complex and super low tax rates for the super wealthy somehow manage to blame bob the postman for the countries problems. I'd rather not live in an America with my only choice to mail a letter being FedEx, BlackWater for police, and our national parks auctioned off to the richest nobleman.... oops I mean investor.
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Re: Post office verging on default, may shut down this wint

Unread postby peeker01 » Sat 10 Sep 2011, 13:06:24

Gollum, government has become too big and inefficient. The trend must be reversed or our
country is going to go belly up.
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Re: Post office verging on default, may shut down this wint

Unread postby gollum » Sat 10 Sep 2011, 13:14:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('peeker01', 'G')ollum, government has become too big and inefficient. The trend must be reversed or our
country is going to go belly up.



I wouldn't argue that point a bit, but it seems the answer of the Tea Party is not to fix and trim government but to destroy in in it's entirety. Some things government does are worthy and should be preserved. Take the subject of this thread, the postal service is actually one of the few government functions directly mandated in the constitution and instead of talking about a lower level of service (say 3 day a week operations) or raise fees (even at a dollar mailing a first class letter would be competitive with FedEx) the "tea party" wants to get rid of it. Never is it mentioned that the Post Office hasn't gotten a dime of tax money in over 20 years but because it's part of the government they hate it must go. I believe most Americans (myself included) think we need to see less government and a government that respects the funds it gets from the tax payers, but it seems to me what the tea party wants is some sort of privatized BlackWater run superstate for the exclusive benefit of the very wealthy.
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Re: Post office verging on default, may shut down this wint

Unread postby massymoxieman » Sun 11 Sep 2011, 07:16:37

Gollum has hit the nail on the head- the Postal Service is at war with a vicious and misinformed Tea Party movement. They are so obsessed with "government is bad" they will even attack an agency (one of the only agencies) explicitly authorized by the U.S. Constitution. Things are so serious right now, the NAPS (National Association of Postal Supervisors) is joining forces with the Postal unions to save the Postal Service. http://www.postalnewsblog.com/2011/09/0 ... save-usps/
If you know anything about how the USPS works, this is a RARE show of unity, as postal supervisors and the unions have one of the most strained management/labor relations in the U.S. Most people think, because they are told by the media, that the Postal Service's financial problems are because of the decline of first class mail volume and the increase of internet communications. But this is not why they have lost $20 billion in the past four years (2007-2010).
The USPS has lost so much money because of a Bush-era law passed in 2006 called the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act (PAEA). PAEA requires the USPS to massively prefund the cost of retiree health benefits over the next 75 years in just 10 years’ time. No other corporation, or government agency, is required to prefund future retiree health benefits. This cost covers not only current employees, but employees who have yet to be hired (based on the erronious assumption that they would continue to be hired at the same rate that they were in the year of the highest mail volume in the history of the world: 2006) – and it is on top of the cost for health benefits for current retirees!
The USPS has been forced to pay $21 billion into a fund for future retiree health benefits over the last four years- meaning it would have been profitable had it not been for this onerous obligation! This is despite the worst recession in 80 years. Congress has hesitated in repealing this law, because they are using the profitable Postal Service as their piggy bank, and to make the budget numbers look good. All that would be neccesary to save the Postal Service would be a simple transfer of funds: private sector audits that found a pension SURPLUS of between $50 billion and $75 billion in the postal portion of the Civil Service Retirement System, because of an accounting error that led the Office of Personnel Management (OPM) to overcharge the Postal Service by billions of dollars for payments into the Civil Service Retirement System (CSRS). H.R. 1351, Rep. Steven Lynch's bill, would rectify this error, whereas the solution Tea Party hero Rep. Darrell Issa has announced his desire to instead lay off between 170,000 to 200,000 workers. This is nothing but good old-fashioned union busting, as these workers make up some of the largest and strongest unions left in America. They are not paid out of taxpayer funds, either, as, contrary to what some may believe, the Postal Service is an independent agency that has not recieved a dime of taxpayer funds since the early 1980's.
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Re: Post office verging on default, may shut down this wint

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sun 11 Sep 2011, 09:30:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('massymoxieman', 'C')ongress has hesitated in repealing this law, because they are using the profitable Postal Service as their piggy bank, and to make the budget numbers look good.


Thanks for the context.. god our news media sucks eggs, they'd never mention that.

So if I follow you correctly, even though the USPS is ostensibly private, their retirement is still federal and Congress has basically raided their coffers by requiring this upfront pension funding.

Congress is a piece of work eh? Tea Party brags about the Post Office going under, when it was Republicans who hobbled them and stole their operating funds in the first place. Why am I not surprised. :roll:

It sounds very, very irresponsible to purposely destroy the USPS. I assume they just want to break the unions.. we can't really let the USPS go under. Rural communities really depend on it. I also read in an article that 8 million jobs in the mail order industry (that counts all that ebay stuff too) depends on the postal service. We can't just have UPS and FedEx. People have to get bills in the mail, certified letters. Also USPS is standard shipping for most stuff you buy off the internet.. I get books from Amazon. With just UPS / FedEx that's like a massive cost increase for the whole country. It would seriously disrupt the economy when we're already in recession.

Without the USPS I'd miss my Netflix :(.. bad enough to not delivery on Saturday, that's like a raising my Netflix rates taking a mailing day away.
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