[efarmer]

The Bush tax cuts were justified by the 400 Billion accounting surplus in the federal budget posted by Clinton during the dotcom bubble. This was before Republicans made a priority issue of the deficit, and so instead of paying down the national debt, they launched into their favorite activity, tax cutting with a particular bias for making it easier to put money into Wall Street and weighted toward the wealthiest people in the nation, who of course are a core support group for conservative principles, which are covered by Republican politicians as a placeholder. The tax cuts were carefully crafted to avoid having to pass the Senate with a 60 vote majority and to skirt making legislation that would deepen the national debt beyond a ten year period going forward. Our national debt of course skyrocketed under President Bush. To get their cuts past congress they had to have an expiration date.

The preceding article is from an investment industry advocate and asks that the reader forget that the tax breaks were meant to return what Republicans saw as excess taxation, grow the US economy by acting as a stimulus for private enterprise, and be renewed on the merit of their achievements when they came to the built in expiration date. The deficit was to be slain by the great power of American free enterprise released from excess taxation to grow it's way back to prosperity.

So now he tells us how we are going to suffer if we don't renew a failed tax cut boondoggle?

Does snake oil cure bankruptcy?

[Crazy_Dad]

I'm more worried about the trade war with China escalating and repeating the 1930's experience.

Although my instincts say that globalism and free trade have hurt the world (Middle classes)more than helped. I don't know what to think any more.
Is a level playing field of free trade a realistic goal? I guess we will find out if the effects are good or bad 1st Qtr 2011.

[Revi]

I think we are headed into a crash of sorts. The currency war is going to put the hurt on the middle class, and the trade war will deliver the coup de gras to most of us working people.

We need to start some other kind of economy based on barter because the fiat money system is failing fast.

I think it's time to hunker down.

Grow some food, trade it with neighbors and watch the show.

Unfortunately we're in it now.

[Newfie]

You seem pretty certain Revi. I don't recall you talking this way before.

What specifically changed your mind?

[Cloud9]

This liar loan fraudulent mortgage fiasco is no longer a ticking time bomb. It is exploding right now. Attorney Generals across the country are asking for stays in foreclosures. Title companies here in Florida are refusing to issue title insurance. Unless a rabbit is pulled out of a hat, the big banks have a life expectancy of hours or days. Nothing is off the table, closed ATM s zed up credit cards, a banking holiday; anything at this point is possible.

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=168419

[timmac]

Want to see a Real Doom Video, it was just updated on July 16 2011, 1st 7 minutes is from a prediction in 2010 about the coming world economy collapse after the Euro tanks than the dollar tanks 2 weeks after, than the video goes to today and shows how this guy is just about right on, its really good and some good shots of riots in Europe.

Yes its from Prison Planet but after todays stock market crash around the world this video is just about to come true, hold on to your seats folks, were going for a ride..

Damn thing about this is I just put $8000 down on a Jeep Wrangler 1 month ago..

http://youtu.be/Tgf9ZzdqdBw

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('timmac', 'W')ant to see a Real Doom Video, it was just updated on July 16 2011, 1st 7 minutes is from a prediction in 2010 about the coming world economy collapse after the Euro tanks than the dollar tanks 2 weeks after, than the video goes to today and shows how this guy is just about right on, its really good and some good shots of riots in Europe.

Yes its from Prison Planet but after todays stock market crash around the world this video is just about to come true, hold on to your seats folks, were going for a ride..

Damn thing about this is I just put $8000 down on a Jeep Wrangler 1 month ago..

http://youtu.be/Tgf9ZzdqdBw

[Sixstrings]

The video says if the Euro crashes "you have two weeks" to get out of "all paper." Problem is though, money has to go somewhere.. some currency would rise as others fall, maybe the Swiss franc maybe the yuan or Brazilian real. But then China and Brazil don't want a strong currency, so they'd turn around and buy Euro or US bonds so voila you have equilibrium.

Hard to figure out how all this ends.

[Novus]

It ends when it is no longer possible to paper over real structural problems like not having enough oil to keep the world economy running or not having enough food to feed all 7 billion people.

[ColossalContrarian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'T')he video says if the Euro crashes "you have two weeks" to get out of "all paper." ... Hard to figure out how all this ends.

[Timo]

Bear with me here as i think out loud. My apologies if this ends up making no sense. First, what's the historical time frame of the 1st World-3rd World concepts? When did they first become relevant terms in the context of global standards of living and economic function? My guess is sometime post WWI, but that's only a guess. If that is true, though, then this means that only during the 1st part of the 20th Century did the functional economic systems of all of the various parts of the world start to seperate into distinct levels. Some nations prospered, while others stayed level. This global seperation of standards/prosperity continued, and is still continuing to spread. I doubt that any nation still performs under a 19th Century economic system, but very clearly, 1st World countries are vastly different from 3rd World countries. This understanding means that the seperation of human conditions, relative to all of human history, is a very recent phenomena, and was enabled only through the exploitation of the physical means of that seperation, ie., the industrial revolution, or put more simply, fossil fuels. !st World economies are based entirely on the endless continuation of cheap and available fossil fuels to fuel the means of their industries. I would argue that the actual production of what made 1st World economies explode with wealth has been transfered to 3rd World economies, and they are gradually catching up. Meanwhile, 1st World economies have shifted their systems of economic wealth from actual production of goods to the production of services. Now, along comes technology that enables the provision of services down to the individual level (iPads, smart phones, androids, etc...) meaning that actual people are no longer required to participate in this aspect of economic function, meaning that a) people lose their jobs, and b) people lose any relavant skills to do much of anything productive. Again, meanwhile 3rd World economies are going gang busters making crap that the rest of the world wants, but are increasingly unable to afford, even though it's all dirt cheap. The gadgets that everyone assumes is essential for life actually has little or no value in a true, functional sense of living. We're all alive at this pivotal point in human history when we all slowly, or quickly, begin the convergence again of economic functions across the globe. Our understandings of 1st World and 3rd World were temporary glitches in the course of human history. We all have only one planet, and it exists to serve all of life equally. Those of us who have prospered did so at great expense, but now reality has simply raised her hand and said Sorry. That's all i got. This leveling of the playing field began in earnest with the North American Free Trade Agreement that allowed goods to be produced elsewhere and to be shipped and sold around the continent. Naturally, corporations realized that the same goods could be produced in 3rd world economies cheaper than in 1st world economies, and so the jobs went there. The argument was that this lowered the price of those goods, thus enabling the rest of us to spend less money. They rise in wealth. We fall in wealth. It's all leveling out. I believe there was a gentleman with the name of Marx who described this scenario repeating itself through history, pitting the proletariat against the bourgoisie. They fight, come to a new level playing field, gradually separate into the two catagories again, fight, even themselves out, gradually separate, etc.......... His observations, however, were only applied to individual economies or regions of the larger playing field (earth). Now, with a global economy, this distinction between 1st world and 3rd world serves the same theory, only on a much, much larger scale. Overall, though, i would venture that these series of battles throughout human history have always resulted in an upward shift in the human condition. Some rise, some fall, but collectively, there's an uptick. Time will tell if this "correction" or "collapse" or "endgame" will be any different.

Again, my apologies if this all made no sense.

[timmac]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'T')he video says if the Euro crashes "you have two weeks" to get out of "all paper." Problem is though, money has to go somewhere.. some currency would rise as others fall, maybe the Swiss franc maybe the yuan or Brazilian real. But then China and Brazil don't want a strong currency, so they'd turn around and buy Euro or US bonds so voila you have equilibrium.

Hard to figure out how all this ends.

[Pops]

It's always the same, BAU till TSHTF then its TEOTWAWKI...

But you'll have 2 weeks, no reason to change today. Just remember friends, 2 weeks, then its Lights OUT.

Keep those cards and letters coming and by the by we accept PaPal.

[dsula]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('timmac', '
')I place my bets on 2012, the bailouts got us thru 2010 and almost 2011, another 2.5 trillion in more loans/debt gets us to late 2012 than its game over..

[timmac]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dsula', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('timmac', ' ')Now we move to end of 2012? But this time it's for sure, right?

[highlander]

it will likely end with more bailouts, then hyperinflation, then war.
That is the only way TPTB allow.
When is the big question. These guys are really good at kicking the can down the road.
When the US quits raising the debt ceiling, then I'd be setting my two-week clock.

[Novus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timo', 'B')ear with me here as i think out loud. My apologies if this ends up making no sense. First, what's the historical time frame of the 1st World-3rd World concepts? When did they first become relevant terms in the context of global standards of living and economic function?
Again, my apologies if this all made no sense.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timo', 'B')ear with me here as i think out loud.,,,,,
,,,,,,, We all have only one planet, and it exists to serve all of life equally. .

[peripato]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timo', 'B')ear with me here as i think out loud. My apologies if this ends up making no sense. First, what's the historical time frame of the 1st World-3rd World concepts? ... Overall, though, i would venture that these series of battles throughout human history have always resulted in an upward shift in the human condition. Some rise, some fall, but collectively, there's an uptick. Time will tell if this "correction" or "collapse" or "endgame" will be any different.
Again, my apologies if this all made no sense.

[peripato]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Novus', 'N')ow 60 years later Gandhi's speech is proving accurate that India is rising as a literal "3rd world" to rival the West.