[Roy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')orked real good under Bush, eh?

Tax cut's for the wealthy an more jobs offshored?

[patience]

Poitics is a diversion for the masses to argue about whilst TPTB fleece them of every last cent. Ignore their actions at your own peril, but don't believe a word they say. Spend your time more productively doing something for yourself and those you care about.

Now, back to our scheduled national bankruptcy.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', 'W')ay to go pops. Publish figures that only a completely biased and economically illiterate hard line leftist would believe.

[AgentR11]

The village is fine... its the mayor's office that is getting hosed the worst.

STB is a valid (if malicious) political goal, and it is getting close to fruition. Took longer than Ronald the Great probably thought it would, but we did have a couple intervening bubbles and some massive paper printing that interfered. Will see how it plays out.

Greenies often say they want power-down and a return to a more sustainable way of life... They're gonna get it with a sledgehammer via STB. Then they'll understand that it isn't the American Nobility that will be forced to endure some heinous privation; it will be them and their servant class who will bear the unpleasantness.

Don't worry though, they'll still be allowed to vote for same sex marriages, concealed carry permits, and bike paths...

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'D')on't worry though, they'll still be allowed to vote for same sex marriages, concealed carry permits, and bike paths...

[prajeshbhat]

I can see the rationale behind STB, lower taxes will automatically lead to lower government spending (which means more for the rich wealth creators and less for the moochers). But the way things are going, most probably the government will continue to go full steam ahead of deficits until it self-destructs into oblivion overnight. That means riots on the streets followed by mafia rule. Sure, americans still believe that because they have guns they can defend themselves against any enemy (rugged individualist). But those guns will not give you a job. That's where China comes in. Not that the US government could afford a big military to stop them.
A Chinese oil company(with full backing from the chinese government) recently made a bid for Unocal. It was the US government that saved Unocal. When the government is gone you can expect the Chinese government to buy up all you big corporations for peanuts. You think big government is bad now - say hello to your new employer, the Communist Party of China. Of course they will only pay $4 a day...

[AgentR11]

More from the "China is the Enemy" brigade...

If China bids hard, the price in dollars for property X goes up. Price of property X goes up in a recorded sale between willing buyer and seller, it sets property tax valuation. The higher the price, the higher the tax collected. And that money from the sale goes somewhere, in fact, it goes into the hands of people who will bid against China and others for property Y; further advancing the price valuation in dollars. Repeat a few thousand times, and you're talking serious inflation, and serious value destruction of China's current position in dollars.

Trust me, if they could liquidate their dollar position while preserving value, they would have done it last year. This is why China's internal analysis thinks the US is already in default; but their economy is still so tied to ours that they can't undo their position. Thus, they remain p**** off, but helpless.

I suspect China will continue buying stuff (Africa/Asia/SA) that allows them to acquire hard value for their dollars, without doing much to contribute to inflationary and tax exposure within the US. If a really good deal comes along, of course they'll try (your Unocal for instance); but I can't see them trying to force the issue repeatedly, as that will do more to damage them and strengthen their competitors than anything else could.

As to riots, and the general threat of mayhem. I refer you to food stamp cards. Let me know when they stop working. Bob won't riot, because Bob can still put a bowl of oatmeal on the table in front of his kid. Those cards won't stop working, not even if the US ceased to exist as a country; its just too effective for the state/regional agencies to ever allow them to fail. You couldn't buy better crowd control with all the money on Earth. Feral, drug crazed, moron gangs, otoh, might show their face more often, but they are no threat to governance, and not really much of a threat to the general population. (when they put down the uziesque junk, and grab .308's bolt guns with scopes, let me know.) So no, Bob stays home in the American version of poverty, because his kid is still fat and stays fat off of the vast calorie producing machine of American industrial farming, aided by that wondrous piece of plastic called a food stamp card.

[Timo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'G')uess they <<government systems that is>> all have their faults.

[prajeshbhat]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')ore from the "China is the Enemy" brigade...

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('prajeshbhat', 'B')ut the way things are going, most probably the government will continue to go full steam ahead of deficits until it self-destructs into oblivion overnight.

[Daniel_Plainview]

I predict that Obarfa will invoke the 14th Amendment so as to declare the debt ceiling unconstitutional.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')s fears intensify that Congress will not pass a debt limit increase in time to avoid default, some Democrats are pulling out their pocket Constitutions to find a back-up plan. Assistant Minority Leader Rep. James Clyburn, R-S.C., said today that if a long-term deal is not struck by Aug. 2, President Obama should sign an executive order raising the debt ceiling without Congressional approval. He said this action would be justified because of a section in the 14th Amendment that states that “the validity of the public debt ... shall not be questioned.” ... The argument is that a default would put the “validity of the public debt” in jeopardy, thus violating the 14th Amendment. And since the president took a vow to “preserve, protect and defend the Constitution” it would then be his responsibility to ensure that the country does not default.

But constitutional scholars are divided over whether the amendment would, in fact, justify the president to unilaterally take action on the debt ceiling. Laurence Tribe, a constitutional scholar at Harvard University and one of President Obama’s former professors, told ABC News earlier this month that the 14th Amendment must be upheld by Congress, not by the president. ... “It’s a tempting [argument], but I think it’s fundamentally fallacious because it assumes that the executive branch is the branch of government that has the ability to enforce the 14th Amendment. Section 5 makes clear it is Congress that has that power,” Tribe said.

... “Believe me, the idea of doing things on my own is very tempting,” Obama said Monday at the annual meeting of the National Council of La Raza. ... If the president does decide to use the amendment, House Democratic Caucus Chairman John Larson said today that “his caucus is prepared to stand behind him.” “We have to have a fail-safe mechanism," said Larson, D-Conn. "We believe that fail-safe mechanism is the 14th Amendment and the president of the United States."

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Daniel_Plainview', 'I') predict that Obarfa will ... declare the debt ceiling unconstitutional.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')... “Believe me, the idea of doing things on my own is very tempting,” Obama said..."

[vision-master]

Planted, don't forget the Rethugs have turned our American Stars upside down.

[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('prajeshbhat', 'I') never said china is the enemy. China never intended to liquidate their dollar holdings in the first place. The reason they bought them was to keep the dollar up and renminbi low, which helps their export economy and keeps their people employed. Now the deficits are so huge that china has stopped bothering. The dollar will hyperinflate no matter what the chinese do. So the chinese will be buying your corporations in Renminbi, not in dollars. Most of the companies are drowning in debt anyway, there will be no willing buyer and willing seller. The companies will be sold in desperation by wall street (institutional investors) for whatever the Chinese (and maybe mexicans, saudis, russians) are willing to pay. Not that you have Unions any more that can protect worker rights.....

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Daniel_Plainview', 'I') predict that Obarfa will invoke the 14th Amendment so as to declare the debt ceiling unconstitutional.

[AgentR11]

Consequence: Soros pays to have a crown crafted for Lord Obama.

[Daniel_Plainview]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Daniel_Plainview', 'I') predict that Obarfa will invoke the 14th Amendment so as to declare the debt ceiling unconstitutional.

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Daniel_Plainview', 'I') predict that Obarfa will invoke the 14th Amendment so as to declare the debt ceiling unconstitutional.

[EnergyUnlimited]

Thanks all 3 of you for your comments.
Nothing good would come as a consequence in any case...

[Daniel_Plainview]

CBS: Reid plans quick vote and defeat of Boehner debt plan (1 hr ago)