Peak Oil
Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Worst place post peak

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.
Post a reply

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Fri 20 May 2005, 21:24:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Terran', 'B')ut then again, there's alot of tolerance,


You mean like Gavin "I hate the homeless" Newsom. If you have money, San Francisco is a very tolerant place. If you're poor, it sucks. Some of the worst bigotry I have ever seen was from rich San Francisco gay boys and it was directed at the homeless.
User avatar
smallpoxgirl
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 7258
Joined: Mon 08 Nov 2004, 04:00:00
Top

Unread postby NTBKtrader » Fri 20 May 2005, 21:33:14

my top 10
1. Las Vegas
2. Phoenix
3. El Paso
4. Mexico City
5. London
6. Los Angeles
7. Rio
8. South Africa
9. Bombay/Delhi
10. New York
User avatar
NTBKtrader
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 600
Joined: Tue 19 Oct 2004, 03:00:00
Top

Unread postby jaakkeli » Sat 21 May 2005, 18:20:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NTBKtrader', '8'). South Africa


Why South Africa? Aren't they still making a good part of their oil from coal?

I'd think South Africa is going to be fine, or no, the same way it is right now (not exactly fine). They were embargoed and cut off for a long time, they'll have the best experience on survival if the global order breaks down. I'd think it would be the best place on that continent.
User avatar
jaakkeli
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu 10 Feb 2005, 04:00:00
Location: Finland
Top

Unread postby alexis » Sun 22 May 2005, 02:43:50

As far as countries as a whole are concerned, those at the end of the list of the sustainability index might be in deep trouble,

http://www.ciesin.columbia.edu/indicators/ESI/rank.html

Nevertheless, the accessibility to other countries around is not taken into account.
User avatar
alexis
Wood
Wood
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri 29 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Top

Unread postby Hawkcreek » Sun 22 May 2005, 03:13:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'G')ather all the fools together, into one huge mousetrap, then immerse Pandora's Box into the sea and drown them all.


Sounds kind of like the ending in Stephen Kings "The Stand". Maybe PO will do for us what Captain Tripps did for them. It would be nice if it could be tailored to take out only politicians, lawyers, and CEO's.
"It don't make no sense that common sense don't make no sense no more"
John Prine
Hawkcreek
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 1468
Joined: Sun 15 Aug 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Washington State
Top

Unread postby TheTurtle » Sun 22 May 2005, 08:50:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('alexis', 'A')s far as countries as a whole are concerned, those at the end of the list of the sustainability index might be in deep trouble,

http://www.ciesin.columbia.edu/indicators/ESI/rank.html

Nevertheless, the accessibility to other countries around is not taken into account.


A very interesting list, Alexis.

It coincides fairly closely with my own (admittedly unscientific) viewpoint of the potential Post-Peak fate of people in countries around the world.
People in countries 1 - 50 have a good chance of Post-Peak survival; countries 51 - 100 might make a go of it, but probably only if they get help from neighbors and even then it will be touch and go; countries 101 - 142 will be in Post-Peak survival hell (i.e., South Korea can't go to North Korea for help, North Korea can't get help from China or South Korea, Kuwait can't get help from Iraq, etc.).

Maybe Haiti could get temporary help from the Dominican Republic, but all that will do in the long run is to pull the Domincan Republic down with Haiti into oblivion. Hence, being ranked 79th means little when you share an island with #137.

Interestingly enough, two of my favorite knives come from countries in the top five - the Swedish mora and the ubiquitous Swiss Army Knife. Coincidence? :wink:
User avatar
TheTurtle
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1905
Joined: Sat 14 May 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Along the banks of the muddy Mississippi
Top

Unread postby jaakkeli » Sun 22 May 2005, 09:42:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheTurtle', 'I')nterestingly enough, two of my favorite knives come from countries in the top five - the Swedish mora and the ubiquitous Swiss Army Knife. Coincidence? :wink:


The world is in a sad state when people associate <i>Sweden</i> with knives. :(

Finland. Number one in environmental sustainability and drunken knife-fights. Yeah, you're definitely onto something.
User avatar
jaakkeli
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu 10 Feb 2005, 04:00:00
Location: Finland
Top

Unread postby Njegosh » Sun 22 May 2005, 10:01:40

say jaakeli;
you sure you're not a reincarnation of Marshal Mannerheim?

Antaa tulla tenne vaan, Suomi Finland Perkele! :P
Njegosh
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 141
Joined: Tue 15 Mar 2005, 04:00:00
Top

Unread postby TheTurtle » Sun 22 May 2005, 10:10:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jaakkeli', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheTurtle', 'I')nterestingly enough, two of my favorite knives come from countries in the top five - the Swedish mora and the ubiquitous Swiss Army Knife. Coincidence? :wink:


The world is in a sad state when people associate <i>Sweden</i> with knives. :(

Finland. Number one in environmental sustainability and drunken knife-fights. Yeah, you're definitely onto something.



:? But ... knives are GOOD. I'm willing to leave a lot of things behind whenever I venture out into the wilderness, but a knife is the one thing I ALWAYS want with me.

Just so you don't feel bad, I'm thinking of getting a nice puukko soon. :)
User avatar
TheTurtle
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1905
Joined: Sat 14 May 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Along the banks of the muddy Mississippi
Top

Unread postby MD » Sun 22 May 2005, 11:38:18

So many votes for(against) Las Vegas. Now I am certainly not at ALL in favor of the consumerism represented by LV, I just want to point out the proximity to Lake Mead and Hoover Dam...massive amounts of both fresh water and hydropower.
Stop filling dumpsters, as much as you possibly can, and everything will get better.

Just think it through.
It's not hard to do.
User avatar
MD
COB
COB
 
Posts: 4953
Joined: Mon 02 May 2005, 03:00:00
Location: On the ball
Top

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Sun 22 May 2005, 14:41:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')o many votes for(against) Las Vegas. Now I am certainly not at ALL in favor of the consumerism represented by LV, I just want to point out the proximity to Lake Mead and Hoover Dam...massive amounts of both fresh water and hydropower.


Is this the same Lake Mead that is shrinking down to empty and the same Hoover Dam that is a few years away from not being a net energy producer?

Las Vegas will have to be shrunk back down to a sustainable level over the next few decades or it will turn into a mass grave.
"www.peakoil.com is the Myspace of the Apocalypse."
Tyler_JC
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5438
Joined: Sat 25 Sep 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Boston, MA
Top

Unread postby Hawkcreek » Sun 22 May 2005, 15:37:30

--
Last edited by Hawkcreek on Sun 16 Sep 2007, 21:06:04, edited 1 time in total.
"It don't make no sense that common sense don't make no sense no more"
John Prine
Hawkcreek
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 1468
Joined: Sun 15 Aug 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Washington State
Top

Unread postby pea-jay » Mon 23 May 2005, 03:03:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MD', 'S')o many votes for(against) Las Vegas. Now I am certainly not at ALL in favor of the consumerism represented by LV, I just want to point out the proximity to Lake Mead and Hoover Dam...massive amounts of both fresh water and hydropower.


Unfortunately only 18% of LV power originates from Hydro and the Colorado river is way overtapped. Las vegas is still doomed any way you cut it. Can you live without power or water in an area that has 110 degree summers and less than 4 inches of precip?
UNplanning the future...
http://unplanning.blogspot.com
User avatar
pea-jay
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1547
Joined: Sat 17 Jul 2004, 03:00:00
Location: NorCal
Top

Unread postby bobcousins » Mon 23 May 2005, 19:42:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pea-jay', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MD', 'S')o many votes for(against) Las Vegas. Now I am certainly not at ALL in favor of the consumerism represented by LV, I just want to point out the proximity to Lake Mead and Hoover Dam...massive amounts of both fresh water and hydropower.


Unfortunately only 18% of LV power originates from Hydro and the Colorado river is way overtapped. Las vegas is still doomed any way you cut it. Can you live without power or water in an area that has 110 degree summers and less than 4 inches of precip?


I have seen Las Vegas seriously suggested as a good example of terraforming. Look what we did in a desert! Why don't we terraform the Sahara? Or Mars!

I took the exact opposite view. Apart from the important fact that deserts are already in terra form, I tried to point out that pumping seawater to the Sahara "to make clouds" was not going to work, but to no avail.

So I coin the term "Las Vegassing". This refers to building an unnatural human habitat in a totally unsustainable location, and having the folly to think this is a Good Thing. Yes, its an ugly term, but it is describing an ugly thing. We are Las Vegassing the Earth.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '9')1 United Kingdom 46.1


Yike! Maybe I should move to Finland. What is it like there?
It's all downhill from here
User avatar
bobcousins
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1164
Joined: Thu 14 Oct 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Left the cult
Top

Unread postby johnmarkos » Mon 23 May 2005, 19:55:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('alexis', 'A')s far as countries as a whole are concerned, those at the end of the list of the sustainability index might be in deep trouble,

http://www.ciesin.columbia.edu/indicators/ESI/rank.html

Nevertheless, the accessibility to other countries around is not taken into account.


It is interesting that the United States is in the top half of the list. The ecological footprint of the U.S. is huge. However, when this quantity is compared to available land, it turns out that the U.S. is in the normal range.

Looking at The WWF Living Planet Report 2004, page 11, I notice that the western U.S. has a very different profile than the eastern U.S. On a footprint intensity basis, the western U.S. appears much closer to sustainable than the eastern U.S.

This is why I don't think San Francisco belongs on the list of worst places post-peak. The U.S. is more sustainable than most countries. The western U.S. is more sustainable than the eastern U.S. I suspect that the San Francisco Bay Area is more sustainable than L.A. An urban environment (the city of SF) is more sustainable than a suburban one. All of these factors add up to my family staying put for the time being.
User avatar
johnmarkos
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 866
Joined: Wed 19 May 2004, 03:00:00
Location: San Francisco, California
Top

Unread postby Ludi » Mon 23 May 2005, 20:16:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hawkcreek', 'm')yself and all of my neighbors could put food on the table without going to Walmart. .


That's excellent! What percentage of your food are you currently growing?
Ludi
 
Top

Unread postby pup55 » Mon 23 May 2005, 21:45:37

I'm really surprised Memphis has not made any of these lists.
Evidently not many of the PO'ers have visited there. They have actually tried to improve it in the last few years, but frankly, still pretty rough.

Memphis is notorious for racial problems, leads the nation in per-capita bankruptcy, high on the scale of per-capita drug and alcohol abuse, single parents, high school dropouts, diabetes and obesity control, violent crime and a lot of other indicators of a really screwed up quality of life.

Furthermore about 50% of the local economy is dependent on Fedex, UPS and other distribution businesses that will certainly take it on the chin once the peak hits. The 25% that depends on tourism mainly arrives by car to visit Graceland and Beale St.

The weather: too hot in the summer, not immune to an ice storm in winter. The river, the ostensible reason to put a town there, is also a source of yellow fever and malaria once the mosquito control gets back to pre-fossil fuel levels.

All in all, pretty rough.
User avatar
pup55
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 5249
Joined: Wed 26 May 2004, 03:00:00
Top

Unread postby Sparaxis » Mon 23 May 2005, 23:43:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')his is why I don't think San Francisco belongs on the list of worst places post-peak. The U.S. is more sustainable than most countries. The western U.S. is more sustainable than the eastern U.S. I suspect that the San Francisco Bay Area is more sustainable than L.A. An urban environment (the city of SF) is more sustainable than a suburban one. All of these factors add up to my family staying put for the time being.


California has one major shortcoming--it has a Mediterranean climate, one of only 5 such regions in the world. This is characterized by mild rainy winters and dry summers. Notice that we don't get even a drop of rain for 6 months straight from April/May to November?

The problem then is that all the crops we grow for food are summer-growing--and therefore require summer water, while all our rain is in winter. California agriculture is massively dependent on cheap water for summer irrigation. What happens to agriculture post-peak during drought years such as the early 1980s?

I agree that Northern California is more sustainable than southern. LA averages 15 inches of rain per winter (this winter was very abnormal). San Jose gets the same. San Francisco gets 22 inches, and Santa Rosa, 32 inches. From SF north, there's a longer rainy season, and better chance to store water for summer irrigation. By the time you get to Oregon, the dry season shrinks to 4 months, but those are the critical 4 months for food crops, so irrigation is still a necessity.

I intend as well to stay in San Francisco for some time, but the "economic relocalization" efforts in Willits in Mendocino Co. attracts my attention. With a 12 month growing season there, and rivers that flow during the summer drought, there's a better chance of developing a local sustainable food supply.
User avatar
Sparaxis
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed 27 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: California
Top
PreviousNext
Post a reply

Return to Open Topic Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest



cron