[vegasmade]

Oilyman - agreed
Merecat - agreed
Eddie B - agreed
Lorenzo - agreed
Hoplite - you're just bein' onrey, right? I think most of us agree that PO remaining a distant future is an idea worthy of our hopes and prayers. Reality says otherwise, but I certainly would love to see more time to work toward mitigation. I'm not sure it will happen, but we all must keep some hope alive. And I think most of us will continue to use this forum as an outlet for our hopes and fears until such time as we have illicited a global realignment, or have been cold cocked by PO's nasty possibilities.

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

[QUOTE]In fact, people who are happy most of the time usually have some sort of chemical imbalance, that can be treated with mood stabalizers. [QUOTE]

Very good point. I wish I knew what they were smoking but I'm probably allergic to it anyway!

[Ludi]

Yeah, heaven forbid someone should be "too happy!"

Quick, give that person some drugs!

[Whitecrab]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('uNkNowN ElEmEnt', 'Y')eah, I dare not take any more economics courses etc until I get this under control. considering how respulsive I find marketing, you might be able to imagine how hard economics is to stick with.

I mean it's interesting (in a sickly fascinating way) but taking it seriously is as tough as listening to a whiner whinge on for the 80th time. But with economics I have a seriously strong compulsion to smack somebody in the head.

[Janick]

I've "found out" about PO in the last few months. My reaction at first was one of hope.

But, the more I read, the forums and other references to PO, the more helpless I started to feel.

This had led me to a state of severe depression. Severe enough that my family has pressed me into consulting a psychiatrist. I have been having insomnia, some nights sleeping as less as 1 hour. No appetite. Complete apathy, even towards my children. Most think I'm in a depression with paranoid delusions (when I talk about PO, people think I'm delusional).

I think my depression gets worse when I visit these forums. Not to blame anyone, but the focus is definitely more on the downer side. I know that PO is not all rosy and all, but I think it's better to try and put all my negative energy towards something more constructive. I know that any efforts I make to prepare myself now are probably too little too late. But, at least I don't feel as helpless or hopeless.

[Kalinka]

Yeah, it seems after discovering peak oil issue, I've passed the same stages: depression, lost hopes, sadness etc. I have no motivation to work really hard and build career anymore. Everyday I'm asking myself how much time is left for the lifestyle we're all living now.
3 years left? 5 years left? If I only knew the exact date I'd feel SO much better. At least I could plan something. Without a date ground seems a bit shaky for me

[hoplite]

The reason I made the Cult like appearance comment is that there are several people here who actually are recruiting others to join in small "communities". It just don't get much Cultier than that, Dolls.

[hoplite]

Sweet crude is trading well below 50 and appears to be trending even lower; is that proof? Or is it only "proof" when the price spikes upward?

If oil goes back to 40, then what say you?









--Hoplite, a Hummer owner! (a real hummer, not the yuppy H2!)

[Raxozanne]

We will say 'depletion of oil is inevitable'

[hoplite]

of course you will, no one argues the finite nature of resources like petroleum. But we can argue the timing.

To me, $40.00 oil means no imminent peak. Look, what I see here is a lot of people who for whatever reason have not done so well (financially) for what ever reason and are gleefulfully (almost ghoulishly) hoping for economic breakdown, could it be that simple? (class envy??) Kinda like persecuted Christians who solace themselves with the delusion that "god will punish my transgressors" ... pathetic.

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

First of all, my family is very well off and we could not be considered to have class envy. In Boston terms we can trace our family back to three ancestors who came over on the Mayflower, my G-G-Great grandfather was the Vice President of the US in Lincoln's first term.

But we would like to see a change in the values and yes, the life styles of North America. Most of the real money is in real estate any way so they won't loose that.

I do desire a change in how society embraces any and all technologies regardless of whether we should or not. Profit should not drive these decisions, and we've lost that. We've all lost our way as people and I hope that will change. I'd like to see more real people instead of china-mart clones.

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

Then do what I did. I sat down and figured out what I would and could do if the peak were only one year away, then two, then three etc. then looked back for more long term plans so look at year one and think if I plan for one year but it happens in five how would that change my plan.

I did that and now have a complete set of plans for the next 7 years.

[countrysidegirl]

I may be totally off......but for oil prices to go down and stay down, means that they have found a way to "keep up" with demand (which is going up). Just because they can produce more doesn't mean that there is more out there, and if they produce more now, then that means there is less out there to produce later and the back side of the bell curve is going to be more of a "sheer drop". Personally I dont want that sheer drop and would rather the prices go ahead and go up and stay up. IMHO

[Waterthrush]

You know, Element, yours was the post that finally pushed me into registering. I thought that you gave such practical advice!

I've known about Peak Oil a long time, but only in an academic sense. It seems much more close at hand now, and the problem I am having is pushing those pieces of paper around when this major, major event is looming on the horizon. But your post helped!

I'm a female, and thought the board could use a few more female voices as well. These next few years will be interesting!

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('uNkNowN ElEmEnt', 'T')hen do what I did. I sat down and figured out what I would and could do if the peak were only one year away, then two, then three etc. then looked back for more long term plans so look at year one and think if I plan for one year but it happens in five how would that change my plan.

I did that and now have a complete set of plans for the next 7 years.

[marko]

Okay, now it's my turn to vent.

When I first found out about peak oil, last November, I freaked out. All my life's plans pretty much shot.

My next step was to frantically figure out how best to survive. But this seems to involve moving to a remote rural location and becoming a subsistence farmer. Or maybe learning to be a very good plumber. And then moving to a remote rural location where things hopefully won't be hellish and where there will be food.

But this would mean leaving everything I know and everyone I know and care about behind. This would be a kind of death in itself.

I am 43 years old and I have always lived in a more-or-less urban setting. I am an introvert and frankly not very good at making new friends. I am a gay man. I have an advanced degree and have always worked with my mind. Not that I am against working with my hands instead. But at my age, and with my gradually declining back and joints, I don't know if I am even capable of becoming a successful subsistence farmer. And even if I were capable, I would end up completely socially isolated in some rural area where hardly anyone could relate to me, with my background.

Then there is the problem of money. When other people my age were building up real estate equity, I was building up educational debt in graduate school. I've paid it off, but I am renting and do not have anything like the $200,000 that it would take to buy a farm even in a remote rural setting.

Frankly, I sometimes just feel that I am fucked. I can see what is likely to be coming, but I feel powerless to do anything about it. And for that matter, I don't really know what is coming, nor does anybody. It seems foolish to put everything I have into saving for a plot of land somewhere where I think I will be miserable, when I'm not even sure that plot of land would save me.

Increasingly, I feel as though maybe the best thing that I can do is to just enjoy my present urban life for as long as possible. And to accept that when it crumbles, I might just die early.

[seabrighter]

I'm going to chime in here too as a newbie to the community. I've only found out just a few months ago. I read Matt Savinar's book as a good primer. I too have been going crazy thinking about my future.

On one hand I want to try to keep doing something. But on the other hand I don't have an established "career" yet and I keep wanting to just start preparing and finding out how to live independently. I feel like I need to know all the little things about civilization that we take for granted. Building houses, growing food, finding fresh water.....and I'm like damn I wish I had finished boy scouts!

As for convincing people around me? I feel like shit is going to hit the fan sooner than I can do that. My best bet is to just tell them straight up and if they want to believe otherwise, time will change their minds.

What's really hard is that I have a girlfriend who is an actress and she's all about chasing her acting dream in LA. I'm thinking, "honey, when the economy takes its first dive, actors will be the first ones out of work." But how can I just crush her dreams with a PO lecture? She's thinking she's going to get rich and live an LA lifestyle? How tragic is that?

I guess I have a lot to get off my chest but I'm looking for some hope too. I'm wondering how long it takes before you start to feel motivated again? When does the hope start to come back?

[Raxozanne]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('uNkNowN ElEmEnt', 'T')hen do what I did. I sat down and figured out what I would and could do if the peak were only one year away, then two, then three etc. then looked back for more long term plans so look at year one and think if I plan for one year but it happens in five how would that change my plan.

I did that and now have a complete set of plans for the next 7 years.

[Waterthrush]

Marko, successful subsistence farmers are few and far between in the US! So, don't despair on that account. Also, adversity often (thought not always) brings people closer together, so you may be less isolated than you think if PO really hits. (Although that effect may be a mixed blessing).

Meantime, take a couple of steps this year, even if it's just piling up some cash. Me, I'm someone with absolutely no home maintenance/tool skills. None. So I'm taking a very small step this year, something that I may even be able to master: weatherstripping. (Stop laughing, those of you who are home maintenance mavens!) Last year I think I installed the wrong product, a more permanent tape than I wanted. So this year I'm determined to learn more about the different types and try again.

You can think about some small step that is available to you now, and do it, and think about some small skill that would be useful, and acquire it.

Seabrighter, it sounds as though you need to become more of a team with your girlfriend. Now, I know nothing of the particulars, but you are both definitely going to need to do some bigtime planning, even if Peak Oil was NOT looming. LA is expensive. To fund her dream of acting, you would need some kind of stable, yet flexible, job. Teaching, for example, pays very little, but it is very portable, and some rural areas are working hard to bring teachers in. Some health care jobs are likewise very portable. Now, as for her dream of LA, since you cannot afford it yet, and you don't want to be miserably poor there, could you convince her to try acting in a regional theater somewhere where you could get whatever degree/training you would need? IAre there areas outside of LA where independent film makers have a community? n this way you would be supportive of her dream while practially providing for you both. In a few years, who knows, real estate prices may have fallen in LA, or the state may be subjected to repeated blackouts and superhigh prices, and she may no longer want to make that move. Get her opinion too - what is a sensible way for you both to advance your dreams.

And yes, it's MUCH easier to advise others than to take up one's own hoe for one's own row!

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

Welcome to the forum newbies. I think that getting past the despair stage is different for everyone but it usually takes at least a month or so someone once said. <- I still feel like that a lot.

Weatherstripping is not a laughable subject. I just bought my first place and I know nothing about it. But I will need to learn, you may want to post questions and the things you learn in the planning for the future forum.

This place, while very depressing at times, has also been one of the biggest sources of information and therefore hope that I've seen.

I think the greatest message that we can and do get from here is that there are things everyone can do. If you live in the city and don't have a lot of space to grow things then you could do container gardening, or support your local farms. They will need someone to buy their products too.

Something I learned today is that oil of oregano will kill almost anything. I have been sick witha Norwalk virus which kicked in at 5:30am. Instead of knocking me out for two days (standard) my friend came over and fed me this horrible stuff (which isn't as bad as Buckley's original but is still freaky), and here I am up typing up a storm about 36 hours earlier than previous episodes.

I never would have tried something new like this unless I knew I might need to find alternate cures for things. Its been a very enlightening experience for me.

Raxozanne: I love the DEFCON titles. too true eh?

[rostov]

I'm still extremely depressed.

The good news is, I have my wife on the same agreement that TS_will_HTFF. . Debt is nearly cleared by the end of this year in December, specialist job is stable, none of us have much obligation in this island, she's ready to move.

The bad news is, preparation can not f*cking start. I'm on this suburbian nightmare locality called Singapore, immigration to other countries are locking up, and I've no blink-o-chance to even practice self-sustainable skills either related to nomadic, bug-out, community, etc. I'm a pessimist, but I wanna get things done to get out of what I think is a bloody rut. It doesn't help that I'm rating my own timeline to have a sane period of peace for 2 years only (mid 2007). I wanna start building, by hand, my own earthwood abode. I wanna hunt for food. I wanna revise my scouting and shartshooting abilities. I wanna grow food.

Everything else that I could do on a small scale, has been done within just a few months of accepting PO. Cook, soft/hard negotiation, jungle/SAS survival training in my small catchment areas, fish and prep for eating (we don't have game in our woods), lose excess weight and more exercise. Papers for immigration are ready, and awaiting both countries' offices (one is 15mths more, the other 8mths).

You know, I could very well just let go of everything that I do (work, lifestyle, etc) just to roam the world until I find some place to settle. But I've got 2 kids, and ironically I suppose I won't go solo-hermit without them, yet I'm daily driven by the need to at least let them grow up strong enough to be on their feet unto self-sufficiency. THIS is what's driving me sleepless at nights (waking up with cold sweats for half a year now), staring at empty walkways and rusted corridors (even when there's lots of walking living).

But between starvation and violent die-off within one of Earth's most densely populated country AND possible PO-style discrimination of skin colour and all that follows, I'd choose the latter. At least with a larger landmass we'd stand a f*cking chance -- bugout if need be, or join the indigenous people, or form a community based on common thinking and skills -- then to face closely packed sardined neighbours vying for food every possible way.

Until I get my family on the flight off this island, 4 million people of which 80% of the families are within 900 sq feet of high rise building apartments is simple a matter of *when* cannibalism is gonna occur.