[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Xenophobe', 'T')he average american commutes some 30 miles a day? The average american gets some 22 mpg? The average american therefore uses some 6.8 gallons a week of gasoline for a 5 day work week, @$4/gal we're talking $27/week for the average American? Somehow, I think if they give up a single Starbucks run a day, they can EASILY afford $50/week for fuel, or similarly, they can afford the price of gasoline to double to $8/gal, exactly as I have suggested previously.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Xenophobe', ' ')It is about time the incentive was laid down to stop this outrageous development of all these other types of fuels. We save the planet from warming, we save the planet from development, we save the planet from everything...and all it requires is getting the average consumer, of any nationality, to get kicked in the privates by the price of crude until they change their behavior.....what price do you think it would take to take 50% out of the average monthly income? Now THAT people will notice!

[meemoe_uk]

>Sorry, that's on page 59 not 57
So you should be. Between you and the thousands of other POers registered on this forum, it's only taken you 11 days to realise this most trivial or errors.

>Condensates, NGLs and crude have different BTUs per barrel. Hence none of their data specifies amount of energy being produced.
Different grades of crude have different BTUs per barrel. Hence none of their data specifies amount of energy being produced.

So what?, you gonna throw out every piece of infomation ever written on oil, just because different stuff has different BTU? Good for you. Why not write endless emails nagging BP, exxon, the EIA and IEA then?

Instead, I think what you might want to do, to make a worthwhile point along the line of arguement you wre trying, is subtract from the total world supply : biofuels and NGLs, to leave crude supply.
In which case, 2010 (80.2mbpd) doesn't break the all time record. At least 2009 (80.6mbpd average) was higher for conventional crude.
Why not look thru IEA records and apply this method to find the highest year for crude supply according to the IEA? Remember, the further back the record was set, the most certain you can be that that was all-time peak, the more PO hype you can generate, so more kudos to you.

I ain't worried about peak. As I've said before, I've heard enough from industry insiders to be confident the new supplies coming on line from the 2001 middle east oil bonanza will meet world demand for many years to come, and in doing so set new highs, including for IEA classified crude.

Well done for being the only POer who has scrutanised a skeptic's link.
By doing this, I hope you realise you stepping over a line that most peakers refuse to go past. The other peakers are looking at your actions with concern and disdain.

[AirlinePilot]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('meemoe_uk', 'W')ell done for being the only POer who has scrutanised a skeptic's link.
By doing this, I hope you realise you stepping over a line that most peakers refuse to go past. The other peakers are looking at your actions with concern and disdain.

[Xenophobe]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AirlinePilot', ' ')Most of us die hard PO proponents dont bother anymore with every corny troll that rolls in here. We are tired of rehashing the same old crap.

[AirlinePilot]

Coming here and implying that all is well with gasoline once again rising towards 4$/gal and jet fuel reaching very costly levels is patently absurd. This will have implications which once again hobble the industry and cause serious economic problems for users of oil products. This includes input prices and compressing margins.

I may still have a job in the airline industry but I can assure you it looks nothing like it did 5-6 years ago. Your implication of little to no impact is disingenuous and factually wrong.

You really need to get off the "All liquids" wagon, it makes you very transparent. That plus the absurd "many peaks" argument really destroys any credibility you might have left here.

[meemoe_uk]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '&')gt;As usual with typical PO denial and general corny thought processes, you would be wrong in your above analysis.

[Adelaidewonderer]

[quote="meemoe_uk]
I can't help but get you started. Here's some hints
The energy density of crude oil is around 44MJ per kg. That's enough to pull it out from about 5000km deep out of the ground, i.e. about the Earth's outer core inner core boundary. The oil humans extract is from the crust, not substancially more than 10km below sea level. 5000km-10 = 4990km. So if we had to lift oil from 10km in the ground, it would take only 0.2% of the oil's energy, which is an EROEI of 500. But in practice most if not all of the lifting energy comes from the Earth's gravity pressuring the oil upwards so even 500 EROEI figure is conservatively low.
This is one factor in the EROEI calculation. Moving to the next.
Your task, work out how much energy it takes to drill through 10km of granite to get to an oil reservoir.

meemoe_uk's guess on AirlinePilot's response : Completely ignore or give some generic POer BS reason for not responding, obviously covering up inability to do EROEI analysis.[/quote]

Earths gravity pressuring the oil upwards!!!!!!!! shouldnt the oil then want to go to the earths core instead, instead of its surface???? The saudis have been resorting to water pressure for many decades now.

If your calculations on EROI are right, then oil that comes from 10km under, would not have a positive EROEI if it had to travel over 4990kms to its market (not even counting all the other energy required for conversion to gasoline etc).

[Adelaidewonderer]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'm')eemoe_uk]
I can't help but get you started. Here's some hints
The energy density of crude oil is around 44MJ per kg. That's enough to pull it out from about 5000km deep out of the ground, i.e. about the Earth's outer core inner core boundary. The oil humans extract is from the crust, not substancially more than 10km below sea level. 5000km-10 = 4990km. So if we had to lift oil from 10km in the ground, it would take only 0.2% of the oil's energy, which is an EROEI of 500. But in practice most if not all of the lifting energy comes from the Earth's gravity pressuring the oil upwards so even 500 EROEI figure is conservatively low.
This is one factor in the EROEI calculation. Moving to the next.
Your task, work out how much energy it takes to drill through 10km of granite to get to an oil reservoir.

meemoe_uk's guess on AirlinePilot's response : Completely ignore or give some generic POer BS reason for not responding, obviously covering up inability to do EROEI analysis

[Arthur75]

@AirlinePilot

Was wondering how does it feel to be both an airline pilot and "peak oil aware" at the same time ?
Not a "reproach" in any way, but do you sometimes feel strange or "dizzy" in these big fuel burning machines ?
I know it happens to me sometimes riding my scooter in the traffic jams, contemplating the mass of cars and exhausts and feeling "strange" as in "holy shit this is nuts"
Also do some of your colleagues are also aware of the problem, is it talked about ?

[meemoe_uk]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')arths gravity pressuring the oil upwards!!!!!!!! shouldnt the oil then want to go to the earths core instead, instead of its surface???? The saudis have been resorting to water pressure for many decades now.
If your calculations on EROI are right, then oil that comes from 10km under, would not have a positive EROEI if it had to travel over 4990kms to its market (not even counting all the other energy required for conversion to gasoline etc).

[Adelaidewonderer]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('meemoe_uk', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')arths gravity pressuring the oil upwards!!!!!!!! shouldnt the oil then want to go to the earths core instead, instead of its surface???? The saudis have been resorting to water pressure for many decades now.
If your calculations on EROI are right, then oil that comes from 10km under, would not have a positive EROEI if it had to travel over 4990kms to its market (not even counting all the other energy required for conversion to gasoline etc).

[meemoe_uk]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('meemoe_uk', 'B')ut in practice most if not all of the lifting energy comes from the Earth's gravity

[Adelaidewonderer]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '7'). Gravity will lift water in glass up, as object falls by gravity to bottom of glass. Without gravity, water would stay in the glass, until you pressed the spoon into the water, expending your own energy doing so.
Seeing this might make your brain spin. But it's a common aspect of reality. Kids are taught about it in there 1st few science lessons. It's exactly this mechanisn that brings oil deep in the ground, to the surface.
Finally, know this. Gravity isn't the only physics involved here, pressure is involved as well.

[meemoe_uk]

>You lost dude. Now go away.
Or more correctly, you and AW lose. I wasn't able to get AW to understand. You and her are stuck in POer land, full of kilometer long spoons, perpetual motion machines and gravity acting sideways. Enjoy it. Now go away.

[americandream]

At what point would the cost of an energy unit of oil eclipse and overtake an energy unit of labour?

meemoe, anyone?

[AirlinePilot]

Im not even going to go near the 'gravity" stuff. Im laughing too hard! I will ask meemo on what planet he thinks 400$/gal ANYTHING used to move people with will be "cost effective". Sorry my good man you obviously do not understand how that can never happen. At least in any way shape or form approximating our present day or even near future economy.

[AirlinePilot]

Any discussion about EROEI needs to include far more input than just the partial amount of energy used to LIFT oil. Debating the topic with such a myopic view is flawed. I think it was Simmons or Deffeyes who said that back over 100 years ago a barrel of oil expended in the oilpatch resulted in 100 bbls of oil extracted. That ratio is SIGNIFICANTLY worse today. Its a direct measure of how oil has become harder to get and i dont think most knowledgeable experts will deny this.

[AirlinePilot]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Arthur75', '@')AirlinePilot

Was wondering how does it feel to be both an airline pilot and "peak oil aware" at the same time ?
Not a "reproach" in any way, but do you sometimes feel strange or "dizzy" in these big fuel burning machines ?
I know it happens to me sometimes riding my scooter in the traffic jams, contemplating the mass of cars and exhausts and feeling "strange" as in "holy shit this is nuts"
Also do some of your colleagues are also aware of the problem, is it talked about ?