[diemos]

It still amazes me that the "debate" on health care reform was so carefully stage managed that no one bothered to ask the question, "Hey, why don't we look and see how other countries get better health care for half the cost?"

If I were given the task of restructuring our health care system to improve outcomes and reduce cost that would be the first thing I did.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')ell you're right.. I assumed that just letting the old and sick die off for lack of treatment wasn't an option. Although emergency rooms still must provide emergency care, which is more expensive than preventative treatment.

Cog, do you not have any elderly relatives that depend on Medicare? I find that hard to believe. Or do you not care about your family either?

[Cog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'Y')ou raise a false dichotomy. Of course the two options can coexist. We can have higher physician incomes and cut medicare. If granny dies a bit earlier then it makes the medicare and social security system solvent for a longer period of time.

[diemos]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'M')edicare costs and social security costs are not sustainable.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')ld people die. That is a fact for the entire time we have been on earth. If they want extensive procedures towards the end, then they or their families can pay for it since the Medicare system is going bust.

[Cog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')ld people die. That is a fact for the entire time we have been on earth. If they want extensive procedures towards the end, then they or their families can pay for it since the Medicare system is going bust.

[vision-master]

Good for you, may you recieve all the blessings from the great creator.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'Y')ou raise a false dichotomy. Of course the two options can coexist. We can have higher physician incomes and cut medicare. If granny dies a bit earlier then it makes the medicare and social security system solvent for a longer period of time.

[Blacksmith]

Think about it guys. You put the work (and money) in that's required to make you a doctor, don't you think you would want to make the big bucks.

Ok there is Cynthia J Koelker.

[vision-master]

Medicare get's cut - the burden shift's towards the silbings.

GET IT!

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Blacksmith', 'T')hink about it guys. You put the work (and money) in that's required to make you a doctor, don't you think you would want to make the big bucks.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')Meanwhile, Canadian and British and German and French docs who make half as much will continue treating the sick regardless of their ability to pay...

[WildRose]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')Meanwhile, Canadian and British and German and French docs who make half as much will continue treating the sick regardless of their ability to pay...

[Blacksmith]

The medical system in Canada is terrific, we export doctors to the United States an import them from all over the world. Did you ever think that that East Indian doctor might be needed in India. Where I live I can honestly say thank God for South Africa.

[WildRose]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Blacksmith', 'T')he medical system in Canada is terrific, we export doctors to the United States an import them from all over the world. Did you ever think that that East Indian doctor might be needed in India. Where I live I can honestly say thank God for South Africa.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WildRose', 'Y')ou know what I wonder, Blacksmith? Are we really exporting that many of the doctors who were trained here to other countries?

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')My guess would be that Canada is a stepping stone to the big bucks in the USA. It's easier for a foreigner of any profession to emigrate to Canada than the US.. and easier for Canadian citizens to emigrate to the US.

[Pretorian]

foreign doctors have to do the residency here, not school. usmle tests and you are good to go to some mediocre residency. Unless you are a Jew, then you can get into a good residency.

[WildRose]

I read one article (wish I could find it now) that stated Canada was not exporting nearly as many doctors now as in the 90's; more of
them are staying in Canada. It stated that in the 90's, medical schools cut the numbers of acceptable enrollment and are just now
increasing the numbers, so it will take a few years for that to make a difference. Also, half of the doctors graduating in Canada are
women, and they do spend some time having families, or so that article said and I guess it makes sense. I know from my work that sons and daughters of doctors will follow in their parents' footsteps quite often, but I wonder if medical school is appealing to very many other young
people. Family doctors don't make a lot of money, and they often have to work in rural areas for years before they can work in an urban setting. Residency is tough - very tiring. Specialists make the big money.

[Cid_Yama]

Is America Still Beautiful?
And while we're at it.
The Social Security/Medicare "Crisis" Is Really a Choice - Between the Middle Class and the Wealthy
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he word for today is "choice," not "crisis."
It's time to stop saying the country "can't afford" Medicare, Social Security, or other programs that benefit the middle class. If I told my mother that I "can't mow the lawn" or "I can't do all that homework" when I was a kid, she'd say: "Don't say you can't. Say you don't want to." (The outcome of these exchanges was inevitable. Hello, lawnmower ...)

Now we're told there's a "crisis" and we can no longer afford the middle-class American dream. The truth is the opposite: Our long-term problems aren't caused by the middle class, but by politicians who choose to sacrifice the middle class for wealthy interests.

All this talk about a "debt crisis" is a way for politicians to avoid telling the truth: They'd rather say they "have to" sacrifice the middle class than admit they're making a choice.

Tax increases for the wealthy are off the table, but they don't want to admit that. And "deficit reduction" is being used here as a euphemism for "spending cuts." We're in an artificially-generated crisis brought on by tax cuts and two wars. Their tax "changes" would hurt the already-damaged middle class even more by taking away tax deductions for health insurance, mortgages, children, and other breaks they desperately need right now.

Last week's reports from the trustees for Medicare and Social Security were a perfect illustration of how the game's being played: First, create a problem by serving the privileged few. Then use that problem to explain why we can't afford financial security for the middle class. Then do it again. Unless this cycle is broken, it will become a death spiral for the American dream.

It didn't have to be this way. It still doesn't. These changes don't "need to happen" at all.

Make no mistake: Despite what you may have read, cuts to Social Security and Medicare are still very much on the table. They're just likely to be disguised as artificial "ceilings," "triggers," or other gimmicks designed to protect politicians from accountability.

Social Security's projected long-term shortfall isn't caused by baby boomers entering retirement. Social Security has a $2.6 trillion trust fund because planners have known about the baby boom for many years (not an impressive achievement, since the last one was born in 1964).

The main reasons for the long-term shortfall are stagnating wages for most Americans, and the fact that the wealthiest Americans capture far more of our national income than at any time in modern history. That's because politicians made choices - about deregulation, banking, government investment, trade, and other key issues.

Wealthy Americans and corporations have enormous political influence. That means it's easier for politicians to say "We can't afford today's Social Security and Medicare" than it is to raise taxes on the wealthy and move away from our dependence on for-profit healthcare. But every time they say that somebody should hit 'em with Mom's words:

"Don't say we can't. Say you don't want to."