[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '
')The reality is we all could all live much simpler lives and be just, if not more so, as happy.

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'A')nd what the hell security do people have in our society? Almost none.

(sorry, just really grumpy about this stuff right now. See thread in the Planning Forum to tell us how you have simplified your life, given away all your stuff to the poor, and how you are much happier now. Thanks. )

[copious.abundance]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'I')ncidentally, where's Oilfinder? I'd like to hear his explanation of how 95,000 jobs lost is actually "sideways recovery."

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', ' ')all this excess could have been put to better use by equalizing the standard of living for everyone and concentrating on making better people, rather then better consumers.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', 'A')nd where is Sixstrings in the 500K jobless claims thread? Interesting he hasn't re-appeared in his own thread now that the number's gone down. Curious.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'A')lthough just seems like you avoid the bigger issue threads. For instance.. how do you feel about the moral hazard of Federal Reserve printing press money juicing up the stock market? Isn't that anathema to what market capitalism is supposed to be about?

[Cog]

I'm really very surprised at you Ludi. I know you have some sort of dream about confiscating all the wealth of this country and re-distributing to those who haven't made much of themselves but its really not going to happen. You would be better advised to start worrying about your personal survival plan and let the die-off happen as it must.

[Pops]

I don't have a good substitute for our cheap-oil-based economy, nobody else does either. I'm going to guess that's the reason peak oil is a concern.

Here are a couple of things off the top of my head I guess might happen a a result of Newjobs (no jobs in oldspeak)

Fewer, larger households.
Fewer, smaller transportation modes.
Larger, denser cities, sparser (still) countryside.
Fewer choices in all manufactured things.
Fewer January tomatoes, more TV Happy Trays® (pre-cooked, pre-salted, pre-HFCSed, mystery food just like moma used to buy at McDonalds now in self-warming single serving (3lb and 6lb) trays at your corner WalMart.)

Food will be cheap (and Multi-Hued!) entertainment will be cheap

I'm pretty sure we aren't going to do anything about inequality. The big money might evaporate if the banks are ever forced to admit how much their assets are worth in the real world or some other fluke but I wouldn't bet on it. Eventually most wealth will not be in 1s & 0s, it'll be in physical things, land, factories, etc.

We'll find things to do but they won't be "new" jobs, we might gain some jobs but they'll be more of the old kind - maids quarters will make a comeback in modest homes is what I'm saying.

[Ludi]

You're some kinda cock-eyed optimist, Pops!

Cheap food, huh?

[Pops]

Cock-Eyed maybe!

Americans eat 110# of beef a year, figuring what we actually eat (no entrails, skin, bone) you could come up with up to 20# of corn to grow a pound of steak - that's over a ton of corn per person per year!

At 100 calories an ounce that's 3,000,000 calories - we're talking 8,767 calories a day! Just so we can have nicely marbled steaks (with white fat of course) - not so we can grow that much beef - we could do that on grass - just so we can have that white fat marbling.

I'm sure you know Ludi but most probably don't that finishing cattle on corn didn't really get going till the 1960s with super cheap grain (fertilizers) antibiotics - and consumers with the bucks to pay. Before that cattle were finished on grass, beef wasn't as marbled and the fat was kinda yellow from all that nasty carotene.

So my point of course is that just like carpooling with a neighbor would reduce our transportation by a large amount, we have a long way to go before we starve.

[Ludi]

We may have a long way to go before we starve but that doesn't mean food will be cheap. There's plenty of food on the planet but 1 billion people are starving. Because they're poor.



I guess you're expecting some kind of price control on US grown food? Seems like with the current global economy, food might end up going to the highest bidder, which might not be me or you.

[Serial_Worrier]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'W')e may have a long way to go before we starve but that doesn't mean food will be cheap. There's plenty of food on the planet but 1 billion people are starving. Because they're poor.



I guess you're expecting some kind of price control on US grown food? Seems like with the current global economy, food might end up going to the highest bidder, which might not be me or you.

[Pops]

Yea, I didn't make my point very well, I didn't mean food will be cheaper necessarily, I meant we'll eat cheaper food. Less escarole and more iceberg, fewer fillets and more franks!

Wiki says:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Western pattern diet, also called Western dietary pattern or the meat-sweet diet, is a dietary habit chosen by many people in developed countries, and increasingly in developing countries.[1] It is characterized by high intakes of red meat, sugary desserts, high-fat foods, and refined grains.[2] It also typically contains high-fat dairy products, high-sugar drinks, and eggs.[3]

[Ludi]

Those of us who already don't eat "high intakes of red meat, sugary desserts, high-fat foods, and refined grains, high-fat dairy products, high-sugar drinks" will eat squirrels, I guess.

[jdmartin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', ' ')all this excess could have been put to better use by equalizing the standard of living for everyone and concentrating on making better people, rather then better consumers.

[The_Toecutter]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jdmartin', 'B')eautiful post, and the same point of reasoning I've been levying for years here: all that waste is someone's job. People can get self-righteous and exclaim how people don't need to be buying TV sets on credit cards, or cashing out on their house to take a vacation, but those TVs and vacations helped pay the salary on my job in some fashion. We're all connected, and the reason the frugal can live frugal is because others are living high on the hog. If *everyone* simplified, the economy would collapse, and none of us would have jobs.

[MarkJ]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')o what are the 99'ers supposed to do; 99 weeks does not last until 2020.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jdmartin', ' ')We're all connected, and the reason the frugal can live frugal is because others are living high on the hog. If *everyone* simplified, the economy would collapse, and none of us would have jobs.

[Plantagenet]

Just last week Obama boasted that "Summers did a heckuva job with the economy."

Does Obama even have a clue about what is going on with the economy? How utterly clueless can Obama be?

[Daniel_Plainview]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'J')ust last week Obama boasted that "Summers did a heckuva job with the economy."