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PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

2010 US elections

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: Republican vs "Democrat" Platforms

Postby gollum » Sun 17 Oct 2010, 18:34:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I') also share some preferences from each party. I like the idea of term limits and balanced budgets. :)

Though I'm not certain, it seems like even a lot of Republicans would be in favor of some "gun control." Or maybe not, maybe they think "keep and bear arms" means being able to have tanks and rocket launchers, I don't know. 8O




Even democrats don't want to touch gun control anymore, it's a political loser.
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Re: Republican vs "Democrat" Platforms

Postby Ludi » Sun 17 Oct 2010, 18:35:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oakley', '
')Eventually we will reach the point where sufficient numbers realize government is destroying our lives, and there will be an uprising.



Why an "uprising"? Why not just withdraw support from it?

Seems like walking away from it would be easier than rising up against it, which might get you killed. 8O
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Re: Republican vs "Democrat" Platforms

Postby Ludi » Sun 17 Oct 2010, 18:38:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', '
')

Even democrats don't want to touch gun control anymore, it's a political loser.



You're probably right. I'm not sure it's really part of their platform. I think it's something Reps like to worry about. Dems and progressives never seem to worry about it, even the ones who own guns. 8O

If someone could link to an official Democratic Party platform which includes gun control, that would be helpful. Otherwise I think they're just making it up.

:?:
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Re: Republican vs "Democrat" Platforms

Postby Ludi » Sun 17 Oct 2010, 18:47:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oakley', ' ')When one Party is in control they attack one type of freedom, and when people become more and more miserable under their rule the other Party is voted in for it to attack another type of freedom. Eventually we arrive at totalitarianism.



You might be right. Democrats seem to want to attack our freedom to die of illness just because we happen to be poor, our freedom to let the state own our uterus, our freedom to be killed by the state even if we're innocent (see Texas), and possibly our freedom to own tanks and rocket launchers. The Republicans seem to want to attack our freedom to have public services, our freedom to own our own uterus, our freedom to not die from illness just because we happen to be poor, our freedom to not pray in school if we don't want to, and our freedom to not be killed by the state even if we're innocent (see Texas).
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Re: Republican vs "Democrat" Platforms

Postby Cid_Yama » Sun 17 Oct 2010, 19:50:54

They are making up the gun control bit. It's to hide the fact that the gun control stuff started during the Reagan Administration after he had been shot.

Personally I think all adults without a Felony, should be required to carry a weapon when in public.

That would put a quick damper on crime, and quickly weed out those incapable of handling the responsibility.

I know many on the left who would agree with me.
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it." - Patrick Henry

The level of injustice and wrong you endure is directly determined by how much you quietly submit to. Even to the point of extinction.
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Re: Republican vs "Democrat" Platforms

Postby Ludi » Sun 17 Oct 2010, 20:01:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', '
')Personally I think all adults without a Felony, should be required to carry a weapon when in public.



Can I carry it without ammo? I don't think mentally ill people should handle firearms. :( I'd prefer not to be "weeded out" just because you think I should be. :( :( :( :(
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Re: Republican vs "Democrat" Platforms

Postby Sixstrings » Sun 17 Oct 2010, 20:05:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', 'P')ersonally I think all adults without a Felony, should be required to carry a weapon when in public.

That would put a quick damper on crime, and quickly weed out those incapable of handling the responsibility.


The problem with our gun culture is that it's a frontier mentality, which no longer fits with modern urban and suburban America. I'm not strongly anti-gun, I accept the situation for what it is. But I have to say, I'd feel safer somewhere like France or Sweden without guns all over the place.

Bottom line.. if you get mugged, do you really want your attackers to have a gun? Ok, maybe you have a concealed weapon permit or you're a Texan with a pair of six-guns on your belt, but is that really how you want to live, constantly armed and ready for a close range life or death shootout?

And the greatest irony is that I've read and heard about many more accidental gun deaths than I've ever heard about innocent folks defending themselves. It's just dangerous, and really not worth it -- a gun being involved in a domestic argument or accidental death is much more likely than the "suburbanite defending his property in a zombie horde shootout" scenario.
Last edited by Sixstrings on Sun 17 Oct 2010, 20:14:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Republican vs "Democrat" Platforms

Postby Ludi » Sun 17 Oct 2010, 20:08:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', ' ') I'd feel safer somewhere like France or Sweden without guns all over the place.



Canada has guns all over the place but they don't shoot each other nearly as often as we do here in the States. :(
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Re: Republican vs "Democrat" Platforms

Postby vtsnowedin » Sun 17 Oct 2010, 20:32:54

8) :" As long as there are final exams there will be prayer in school"
I don't know the source but it's a good line.
Canada is not a good example Ludie. They have very strict anti handgun regulations and demographics that make them unique.
I cant say as I can go for all the planks of either parties platform but the balanced budget trumps all the rest for me. If we don't get our fiscal house in order there will be no government to do anything about any of those other planks.
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Re: Republican vs "Democrat" Platforms

Postby vtsnowedin » Sun 17 Oct 2010, 20:35:36

delete double post
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Re: Republican vs "Democrat" Platforms

Postby Ludi » Sun 17 Oct 2010, 20:42:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '
')I cant say as I can go for all the planks of either parties platform but the balanced budget trumps all the rest for me. If we don't get our fiscal house in order there will be no government to do anything about any of those other planks.



Except the candidates fielded by the Reps don't seem to know how to manage their own money let alone ours! 8O 8O

The last Rep administration pretty much flushed a balanced budget down the toilet. Not sure why they would be expected to do better another time. :?:

For me personal reproductive freedom trumps all the rest. Without freedom of my own body I am a slave to the state. I don't expect any males here to understand what that feels like. :(
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Re: Republican vs "Democrat" Platforms

Postby Ludi » Sun 17 Oct 2010, 20:48:39

The budget was balanced under Clinton, a democrat.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/d ... deral.html

It went to hell under Dubya.

But for some reason, conservatives like to think Reps can balance the budget.... :?: I guess because they say they can..... :?:
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Re: Republican vs "Democrat" Platforms

Postby vtsnowedin » Sun 17 Oct 2010, 20:51:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '
')I cant say as I can go for all the planks of either parties platform but the balanced budget trumps all the rest for me. If we don't get our fiscal house in order there will be no government to do anything about any of those other planks.



Except the candidates fielded by the Reps don't seem to know how to manage their own money let alone ours! 8O 8O

The last Rep administration pretty much flushed a balanced budget down the toilet. Not sure why they would be expected to do better another time. :?:

For me personal reproductive freedom trumps all the rest. Without freedom of my own body I am a slave to the state. I don't expect any males here to understand what that feels like. :(

Having a wife and three grown daughters puts me with you on that one and I can't understand the fixation of the far right GOP on this. Dose not present law allow every Republican woman the freedom to Not have an abortion? I think that is good enough certainly while we struggle with more pressing problems.
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Re: Republican vs "Democrat" Platforms

Postby vtsnowedin » Sun 17 Oct 2010, 21:01:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'T')he budget was balanced under Clinton, a democrat.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/d ... deral.html

It went to hell under Dubya.

But for some reason, conservatives like to think Reps can balance the budget.... :?: I guess because they say they can..... :?:

8) From your link. And don't forget the contract with America and the Repulican controlled congress that placed checks on Clintons plans.
An equally if not more powerful influence was the booming economy and huge gains in the stock markets, the so-called dot-com bubble, which brought in hundreds of millions in unanticipated tax revenue from taxes on capital gains and rising salaries""
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Re: Republican vs "Democrat" Platforms

Postby Ludi » Mon 18 Oct 2010, 09:48:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '
')An equally if not more powerful influence was the booming economy and huge gains in the stock markets, the so-called dot-com bubble, which brought in hundreds of millions in unanticipated tax revenue from taxes on capital gains and rising salaries""


Taxes which were lowered under Dubya. The Reps still want to keep taxes low for folks who make buttloads of money and can easily afford higher taxes. It's not like the top strata are suddenly going to be hard up if their taxes are raised a whopping 4%. But from the way they scream and cry, you'd think the top tax rate was going back to the historic 90% instead of 39%.
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Re: Republican vs "Democrat" Platforms

Postby vtsnowedin » Mon 18 Oct 2010, 12:21:12

:evil: I think 35% is enough no matter who you are. I'd like to see everyone in that bracket actually pay the 35% instead of playing tax shelter games with their lawyers and accountants. If they can't get by with a 35% top bracket we need less government not higher taxes.
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Re: Republican vs "Democrat" Platforms

Postby Ludi » Mon 18 Oct 2010, 12:31:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'I') think 35% is enough no matter who you are.



I dunno. Seems like the top strata should be paying a higher rate. Since federal taxes are paid on income or financial wealth, shouldn't the tax rate on that wealth be congruent with the percentage of the wealth owned? The top strata own about 43% of the financial wealth of the nation, why shouldn't the top rate be about 43%?

Image

http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesameri ... ealth.html
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Re: Republican vs "Democrat" Platforms

Postby Ludi » Mon 18 Oct 2010, 14:50:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', ' ')If they can't get by with a 35% top bracket we need less government not higher taxes.


The main problem I have with the "less government" crowd is they invariably call for elimination of programs which help those in the lower earning brackets, such as Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Aid to Families with Dependent Children, etc. (called "entitlements" these days). Rarely if ever does the "less government" crowd call for a reduction of the military-industrial complex or an end to subsidies to corporations. :?:
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Re: Republican vs "Democrat" Platforms

Postby Sixstrings » Mon 18 Oct 2010, 21:28:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'T')he main problem I have with the "less government" crowd is they invariably call for elimination of programs which help those in the lower earning brackets, such as Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Aid to Families with Dependent Children, etc. (called "entitlements" these days). Rarely if ever does the "less government" crowd call for a reduction of the military-industrial complex or an end to subsidies to corporations. :?:


Bingo. It's all propaganda, they want you to feel guilty for wanting some cake whilst they grab it all.
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Re: Republican vs "Democrat" Platforms

Postby PrestonSturges » Tue 19 Oct 2010, 00:55:50

It's funny but economists consider it a Big Problem when middle class people save money, because this "idle capital" drives up the value of the dollar.

So why isn't it a big problem when all the cash is tied up by a couple individuals? Because they can hire economists to say anything they want.
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