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THE Jimmy Carter Thread (merged)

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Re: Why does Jimmy Carter get bashed?

Unread postby sparky » Thu 26 Aug 2010, 03:21:42

.
The two best presidents post war were Carter and Nixon ,
quite different in style , both were crucified by special interests
Nixon got done fro trying to bring a power hungry FBI to heel ,
the liberal press did the hatchet job for the entrenched " homeland security mafia "
Carter wanted Israel to give some autonomy to the Palestinians ,
the Jewish lobby ran over him using the Republican party as a truck
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Re: Why does Jimmy Carter get bashed?

Unread postby Pretorian » Thu 26 Aug 2010, 09:10:28

Carters get bashed because he does not splatter before Israel as much as they would have wanted (at least now when he is retired). Dont forget who owns mass media.
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Re: Why does Jimmy Carter get bashed?

Unread postby Dreamtwister » Thu 26 Aug 2010, 13:44:08

Because there are two things you can never tell an American:

1) You are smarter than they are
2) They are wrong

He did both.
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Re: Why does Jimmy Carter get bashed?

Unread postby ian807 » Thu 26 Aug 2010, 13:45:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', 'B')ecause there are two things you can never tell an American:

1) You are smarter than they are
2) They are wrong

He did both.

That sums it up more neatly than I did.
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Re: Why does Jimmy Carter get bashed?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 26 Aug 2010, 14:58:20

If Jimmy Carter was so smart, why did he get in a fight with a bunny? :-D

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Re: Why does Jimmy Carter get bashed?

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Thu 26 Aug 2010, 15:02:06

Carter was a wimp, and the peak of phony macho was Bush43 and his anti-gay-marriage. W was a cheerleader in college, his roommate is a very gay politician. Scotty McClellan was a regular in DC gay clubs and apparently pal of gay escort Jeff Gannon; Condi, Myers, John (not Josh) Bolton, Ken Mehlman all "work long hours," are "private about their personal lives." And Rove's dad was flaming gay.

Contrast Carter's honesty with the Bush43 "we create our own reality" agenda. Reagan was an actor, W liked to pretend to be a cowboy but couldn't ride a horse.

If you tell the truth people won't believe you.

If Obama came out tomorrow speaking Swedish and wearing a Viking helmet, the press would say "Aha, that explains everything," and by the end of the day "Obama-is-a-Viking" would be conventional wisdom.
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Re: Why does Jimmy Carter get bashed?

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Thu 26 Aug 2010, 15:14:34

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Reagan asked the American people, "Are You Better Off Than You Were Four Years Ago?"

The answer was a resounding no.

Carter lost because the economy tanked under his watch.

That is the single most important factor in ANY election. If people are not doing well economically, they will not support the incumbent.

Johnson, Nixon, and Reagan won massive victories in 1964, 1972 and 1984 in large part because the previous four years had been so prosperous.

The American people also care about economic momentum. Clinton's first term wasn't that impressive on a per capita income growth measure, but from 1995 onward, growth accelerated.
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Re: Why does Jimmy Carter get bashed?

Unread postby Xenophobe » Thu 26 Aug 2010, 15:21:04

I don't know if you can call what Carter said "telling the truth" except in a very general sense, and the American people have never been all that enthused about the boy who cried wolf routine. Are we going to run out of oil and gas? Sure. Did Jimmy know when any better than anyone else? Of course not.

I agree that the wimp factor plays into his poor reputation as well, there are many countries and people who might think that when some small country is randomly invaded by the Soviet bear that the appropriate response is to boycott a sporting event, but Americans aren't usually among them. Not that it did Bush the First much good for doing it right. Americans are also fickle.
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Re: Why does Jimmy Carter get bashed?

Unread postby Dreamtwister » Fri 27 Aug 2010, 01:37:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Xenophobe', 'A')re we going to run out of oil and gas? Sure. Did Jimmy know when any better than anyone else? Of course not.


Actually, Carter was almost certainly privy to the intelligence reports on energy that were floating around at the time. I know the State Department published one in 1973 called "The Oil Crisis: This time the wolf is here", and the CIA published one a few years later, outlining how the Soviet Union could be forced to collapse by undermining world oil prices. Then of course there was Hubbert's work. All of this (and who knows what else) would have been readily available to him.

Of course, Carter won't even comment on it any more. I think he learned his lesson in 1979: People do shoot the messenger.
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Re: Why does Jimmy Carter get bashed?

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Fri 27 Aug 2010, 01:57:58

I think everyone is giving Carter too much credit with regards to his understanding of Peak Oil.

If you tell the truth but no one listens, does it matter if you had said anything at all?

Does Bill Clinton get credit for Obama's health care reform because he talked about it in 1993?

Being right is important, translating your beliefs into workable public policy is FAR more important.

Moreover, some of his policies were counter-productive. The "gas guzzler tax" created the SUV. The "windfall profits tax" crushed small producers by creating an accounting nightmare, leading to MORE oil industry consolidation, not less. The Natural Gas Policy Act was a regulatory mess and the uneven removal of price ceilings created some supply problems.
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Re: Why does Jimmy Carter get bashed?

Unread postby Pretorian » Fri 27 Aug 2010, 02:41:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', 'T')he rest of the world isn't fooled.

Presidential Nobel Peace Prize Recipients

Barack Obama - Democrat

Jimmy Carter - Democrat

Woodrow Wilson - Democrat

Teddy Roosevelt - Republican (They were very different back then.)

That's it, just 4.



Sorry, but it just isnt "the rest of the world" who decides who gets a Nobel Prize. It is decided by a very small group of people who have their own interests.

By the way, any idea why Obama got a Nobel Prize? I mean can anyone in the world can even type these words with capital letters now?
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Re: Why does Jimmy Carter get bashed?

Unread postby Xenophobe » Fri 27 Aug 2010, 08:12:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Xenophobe', 'A')re we going to run out of oil and gas? Sure. Did Jimmy know when any better than anyone else? Of course not.


Actually, Carter was almost certainly privy to the intelligence reports on energy that were floating around at the time. I know the State Department published one in 1973 called "The Oil Crisis: This time the wolf is here", and the CIA published one a few years later, outlining how the Soviet Union could be forced to collapse by undermining world oil prices. Then of course there was Hubbert's work. All of this (and who knows what else) would have been readily available to him.


Of course he was privy to all of that. And that State Department article was in a magazine like Energy Policy of some sort, it wasn't hidden any more than Hubberts work was. And then Jimmy decided to tell us we would be running out soon. Not in 50 years, but soon. So sure...he knew we would run out, he just didn't know when, but he pretended like he did, and then here came the boy who cried wolf routine.
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Re: Why does Jimmy Carter get bashed?

Unread postby Dreamtwister » Fri 27 Aug 2010, 09:52:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Xenophobe', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Xenophobe', 'A')re we going to run out of oil and gas? Sure. Did Jimmy know when any better than anyone else? Of course not.


Actually, Carter was almost certainly privy to the intelligence reports on energy that were floating around at the time. I know the State Department published one in 1973 called "The Oil Crisis: This time the wolf is here", and the CIA published one a few years later, outlining how the Soviet Union could be forced to collapse by undermining world oil prices. Then of course there was Hubbert's work. All of this (and who knows what else) would have been readily available to him.


Of course he was privy to all of that. And that State Department article was in a magazine like Energy Policy of some sort, it wasn't hidden any more than Hubberts work was. And then Jimmy decided to tell us we would be running out soon. Not in 50 years, but soon. So sure...he knew we would run out, he just didn't know when, but he pretended like he did, and then here came the boy who cried wolf routine.


But he did know when. 50 years is "soon" when you're talking about restructuring the entire country's energy infrastructure. That was the whole point of the sweater and the solar panels - he was trying to set an example by showing what people could do right then to help out. No it wasn't a long-term solution, and of course we now understand Jevon's Paradox, so we can comfortably say it wouldn't have made much of a difference, but that doesn't mean he was "crying wolf". It just means he gave Americans too much credit. Notice he's also the last President to make that particular error?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'M')oreover, some of his policies were counter-productive. The "gas guzzler tax" created the SUV. The "windfall profits tax" crushed small producers by creating an accounting nightmare, leading to MORE oil industry consolidation, not less. The Natural Gas Policy Act was a regulatory mess and the uneven removal of price ceilings created some supply problems.


Well Carter may have been smart and decades ahead of his time, but he's still a politician. That means he thinks the solution is taxes and regulation. Of course that's nonsense. More taxes and regulation are never the answer. But that's a failing common to all Presidents.
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Re: Why does Jimmy Carter get bashed?

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Fri 27 Aug 2010, 09:58:02

US production peaked in 1970. The Arab Oil Embargo in 1973 by OAPEC (Organization of Arab Petroleum Exporting Countries), in retaliation for our support of Israel in the Yom Kippur War, and the rest of OPEC using the opportunity to pad their own pockets, demonstrated clearly that foreign sources would be unreliable in the future.

Carter, and everyone else alive at the time, was well aware. Remember, some of us were actually adults back then, and know exactly what transpired. I myself, worked for the State Dept at the time.

When Carter came to office, energy was the first thing on his agenda.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '1')977: President Carter signs the Department of Energy Organization Act, creating the U.S. Department of Energy.

Prior to 1973, the United States had no coherent energy policy. Instead, a number of smaller agencies, often working independently of one another, handled different aspects of the nation's energy needs. In the early years of the Atomic Age, for example, the military assumed responsibility for all nuclear-related issues.

The 1973 energy crisis changed everything. It was triggered when Arab member nations of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries imposed an oil embargo against all western countries supporting Israel during the Yom Kippur War. The embargo resulted in an immediate jump in oil prices (to $12 a barrel!), widespread gasoline rationing and the imposition of a 55 mph maximum speed limit. And it exposed America's energy dependencies and weaknesses.

The Nixon administration responded with Project Independence and the creation of the Federal Energy Office, the former intended to give the United States total energy independence by 1980 and the latter to manage a national energy policy. The energy program grew incrementally under the Nixon and Ford administrations, but remained diffuse.

Jimmy Carter had acquired a technical background in nuclear propulsion as an engineering officer in the Navy. When he took office in 1977, he proposed creating a Cabinet-level überagency that would consolidate everything energy-related -- research, exploration, conservation, production and disposal -- under its authority. The Energy Department would also be responsible for setting the national energy agenda and assuring nuclear safety.

Congress passed the act, and Carter signed it Aug. 4. The Department of Energy began operating Oct. 1, 1977.

link
Please note, Nixon imposed the 55 mph speed limit during the Arab Oil Embargo, not Carter, and that Nixon's Project Independence originally set the goal of energy independence by 1980.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t turns out that Carter was right after all.

He was right in seeking to raise the fleet auto mileage standard to 48 miles per gallon by 1995. (Even U.S. automakers admitted at the time that they could easily achieve 30 mpg by 1985.)

Jimmy Carter was right in exhorting Americans to turn down their thermostats, even if he did look nerdy in a cardigan while urging us to do so.

In his July 1979 speech, he was right when he said, “I am tonight setting a clear goal for the energy policy of the United States. Beginning this moment, this nation will never use more foreign oil than we did in 1977 — never.” That worthy goal quickly went by the board.

He was right to encourage fuel conservation by proposing a 50-cents-per-gallon tax on gasoline and a fee on imported oil — in effect, a floor for fuel prices.

Invoking the pioneering spirit of the 1960s’ moon mission, he was right to recommend a tax on windfall oil profits to finance a crash program to develop affordable synthetic fuels.

Jimmy Carter was correct, too, in setting a goal of obtaining 20 percent of our energy from solar power by the year 2000.

link
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Re: Why does Jimmy Carter get bashed?

Unread postby Revi » Fri 27 Aug 2010, 10:51:18

Jimmy Carter just pulled off getting that Gomes kid out of North Korea. How about that?
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Re: Why does Jimmy Carter get bashed?

Unread postby eastbay » Fri 27 Aug 2010, 12:09:30

Yeah Revi, the guy still has some decent horsepower even after three decades out of office.

But you gotta applaud the North Koreans for enforcing their national border crossing laws. The law says it's a long prison stretch for illegal entry and he enters illegally. Jimmy saw a rare opportunity to generate some good will with the NK's and appears to have pulled it off. Nice work! :)
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Re: Why does Jimmy Carter get bashed?

Unread postby americandream » Fri 27 Aug 2010, 19:18:33

I wouldn't even know where to start. His legacy, unknown as it is, was to assist in the rise of barbarism, posing as it does as civil order. And here I mean Islam. Carter and Brzezinski together played a significant role in nurturing an Islamic resurgence in Afghanistan, Pakistan and the Middle East with the consequences that we find ourselves dogged with these decades later. A world awash with religious zealotry to the extent that we now have:

1 The farcical spectacle of a country in which women are routinely stoned to death for adultery being crowned for it's role as a freedom fighter.

2 A clash of "civilisations" where the world stands on the brink over whose version of god is authentic.

3 Terrorism being waged by what were former "freedom loving" anti-communists intent on reverting all of us to some golden age where women are chattels and reason has to make way for Bronze Age fairy tales.

Jimmy Carter has a lot to answer for. He has quite a debt to work off.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ColossalContrarian', 'I') wasn't born yet so I've read a little about his presidency but I see him almost as an oracle instead of a terrible president. Maybe he was a terrible president but in retrospect, 30 years or so later, he seemed to see things on a macro scale and is one of America's best aids in averting geopolitical disasters at the current moment.
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Re: Why does Jimmy Carter get bashed?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 27 Aug 2010, 21:48:46

Jimmy Carter once grew the world's largest peanut, and after he was president he ordered the secret service agents to bring it along wherever he went.

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Re: Why does Jimmy Carter get bashed?

Unread postby americandream » Fri 27 Aug 2010, 22:09:19

And as we all know, the large nut was named Plantaganet and given a nutjob advising Carter on policy intiatiatives such as Habitat for Humanity.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'J')immy Carter once grew the world's largest peanut, and after he was president he ordered the secret service agents to bring it along wherever he went.

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Re: Why does Jimmy Carter get bashed?

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Fri 27 Aug 2010, 22:50:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'A')nd here I mean Islam. Carter and Brzezinski together played a significant role in nurturing an Islamic resurgence in Afghanistan, Pakistan and the Middle East


That's a pretty big piece of crock right there. You do realize that Islam in all three of those regions dates back centuries.

When had it ever waned, to experience a resurgence?

What a bunch of nonsense.
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