[SeaGypsy]

Every 6 months or so this gets trotted out.
Here we go again....
IMO:
1/ Humans are nowhere near being able to survive long enough in space to make it anywhere even possibly habitable.
2/ Human spacecraft are infinitely slower than they need to be to make these ideas real.
3/ By the time such obstacles are overcome, humanity may already be extinct and will certainly have gone well past overshoot into dieoff bottleneck.
4/ We as a species have the capability to live here on earth for 10's of millions of years. Surely a better direction would be to enable this which we know is possible than to shoot for something which is most likely impossible. Once we have reached a sustainable platform for life on earth, we have millions of years to discover ways to get off it.
5/ If we are such an idiotic species as to overpopulate and obliviate ourselves in our natural environment (the Earth) surely it is better for the rest of the universe if we just stay put and die.
6/ These ideas are fundamentally insane and anti life; dressed up as 'the only sane answer' and as 'our only means to survival'.
7/ Even if some warp drive engine (ha!) is available real soon to get us to light speed, the descendants climbing off the craft in some other solar system will have been breeding for at least 10 generations whilst in transit. They will likely not adapt to gravity well at all, they will have patheticly weak bones and immune systems. They also will have to wait twice as long as their travel time to hear back from earth to their emails.
Estimates are that the closest possible habitations are 270 light years away, giving a round trip electronic signal a 540 year travel time. Rediculous in the extreme. Also through the journey no communication will be possible as the signals from earth would not be able to catch up with the light speed craft.
If the craft is not light speed but say 1/4 of that, then quadruple the travel time to 40 generations.
Then it is equally possible that another version of 'humans' have already trashed the planet intended for colonisation.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'E')very 6 months or so this gets trotted out.
Here we go again....

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '
')Estimates are that the closest possible habitations are 270 light years away, giving a round trip electronic signal a 540 year travel time. Rediculous in the extreme. Also through the journey no communication will be possible as the signals from earth would not be able to catch up with the light speed craft.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'E')ven when you boil our advantages down to stone age tech, we remain the most survivable species on Earth. Now add in all the technology we have now, enabled by language passing knowledge from one generation to the next, and I really just can't see us ever going extinct.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', 'W')hat about slow oxygen depletion to 16%?

[Oakley]

The idea that colonizing space to insure the continuation of the human species strikes me as absurd. Where does he think we could find a sustainable environment; after, all, the peak oil concept highlights our present inability to even sustain human life here on earth, at least the type of life that would enable space colonies.

As 21st century technology collapses from lack of energy to sustain it, we will be lucky if we can even stabilize in lifestyles akin to what we had in the 17th century.

We inherited and squandered the fossil fuel bank accounts, and now are struggling to even survive at our present level of consumption on what little balance is left, so where is the energy to fund space colonization, much less any of the infrastructure requirements of the inadequate alternative energy sources.

Dream on Hawking while the only real solution is dramatic and immediate population crash until our numbers are in balance with the ability of the earth to sustain us long term. The solution is not to soil and then abandon the earth but to live within her limits, and if those limits command our ultimate extinction from some of the dangers Hawking imagines, then that is the way it is supposed to be.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oakley', '
')As 21st century technology collapses from lack of energy to sustain it, we will be lucky if we can even stabilize in lifestyles akin to what we had in the 17th century.

[SeaGypsy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '
')Estimates are that the closest possible habitations are 270 light years away, giving a round trip electronic signal a 540 year travel time. Rediculous in the extreme. Also through the journey no communication will be possible as the signals from earth would not be able to catch up with the light speed craft.

[frood]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '
')Estimates are that the closest possible habitations are 270 light years away, giving a round trip electronic signal a 540 year travel time. Rediculous in the extreme. Also through the journey no communication will be possible as the signals from earth would not be able to catch up with the light speed craft.

[AgentR]

wiki has more info, but the faster you go the "wierder" time and mass get.

Its all governed by a factor: 1/ SQRT(1 - v^2/c^2); ie, when you get v very close to c, this factor goes to infinity. Making it impossible for any object with mass to reach the speed of light.

More exact explanation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_in_special_relativity

And yes, this stuff has been generally (pun o matic) observed in real world experiments.

[AgentR]

On the space budget...

I have been an opponent of manned flight for quite some time, and yet I find myself distressed by the notion that the US is about to abandon its manned flight capability. Yes, I understand that the new system was not sexy star trek looking stuff, but it was good reliable stuff that was likely to be much more cost effective than Shuttle.

Feels really odd. I ought to be looking forward to a science and space flight budget unhampered by the requirements of having to worry about Astronaut urine and oxygen production. Maybe its just too late, and we're on the verge of losing the capability to do any science at all, other than the mundane space flight needed to launch boring communications and observation satellites around Earth.

Hawking though... I think sitting in that chair has made him lose it, not so much in the knowledge department, but in his grasp of what the various nations remain able to fund and pursue. As debilitating as his illness is; if he clicks "Buy Now" on an expensive item at Amazon, it'll show up on his doorstep, and his paid help will drag it inside and he gets to play with it. Bob da Plumber clicks "Buy Now" and his bank will say "buzz off" and charge him $25 for the courtesy. The notion that not only are we going to give up manned flight, but may be soon giving up all significant space science worldwide... probably hasn't occurred to him yet. Bob's probably been thinking, "why the heck are we spending a hundred million to orbit a stupid camera, antenna, and pc around some dumb planet that will never be touched by any human hand alive today." To Senator X... Bob's got a point.

[Ludi]

As much as I love space stuff, I can see how some folks could get upset if we're spending bozillions sending some heroes into space while increasing numbers of regular Americans are becoming homeless. Not saying not having a manned space program is going to fix our problems, just, it seems a little rude to be sending heroes into space while not solving problems back here at home. Robots in space are much more affordable than heroes in space.

I feel fortunate to have lived through the Space Age, but it does feel a little sad to see it pass.

[Timo]

Stephen Hawking has secretly solved the equation for travel at faster than light speeds, thus making the trip next door more palatable. The crux of this is that he's hidden that secret formula in his will. When he eventually dies, which i hope is a long way off, the world will be so excited to learn of his discovery. We'll spend billions and billions to build an engine capable of Warp 7, only to find out after a couple of decades that he solved the equation wrong. Jokes on us.

[yeahbut]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'A')s much as I love space stuff, I can see how some folks could get upset if we're spending bozillions sending some heroes into space while increasing numbers of regular Americans are becoming homeless. Not saying not having a manned space program is going to fix our problems, just, it seems a little rude to be sending heroes into space while not solving problems back here at home. Robots in space are much more affordable than heroes in space.

I feel fortunate to have lived through the Space Age, but it does feel a little sad to see it pass.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yeahbut', 'M')aybe a few more excursions into space and a few less into financial and moral quagmires on the other side of the world...

[efarmer]

We had to compete with the Soviet Union to be inspired for the race to the moon. It was a massive stimulus mentally and at the time we reached the moon, we were invested $28 billion into the venture and it drove advances in electronics, materials science, process and systems control, computers and software, and a ream of other disciplines.

We need to set the target on sustainable living and energy systems, and they should include everything from fusion and nuclear to biofuels to funding and categorizing all the naturally sustained systems such as biointensive gardening, permaculture, aquaculture, etc.

We should end up with a ream of documented and proven technologies and they should be put into a redundant competition with centers for whichever aspect of the humongous effort makes sense by region. We need to put our eggs in zillions of baskets and hatch as many as we can. Americans should be able to migrate to where their particular flavor of solutions technology is being hatched and put their shoulder to the effort.

We should throw it open to any nation that wants to participate and network the US effort into every other thing going on the planet, yeah, even Iran and North Korea.



America needs to stop acting like they run the world and save it instead, you want a uniting principle, try this one on for size.

We need a war we can win or go down fighting, one that fits our self image, and the documents of our founders, and the principles we are supposed to stand for.

America needs to find a mission better than being the worlds hydrocarbon protection agency
with people arguing about if we should save or spend money we are presently hallucinating anyhow when it is obvious the world is running up on the consequences that will stop the game of winners and losers on a planetary basis and simply yield losers.

Tell Mr. Hawking to wrap his head around how we get fusion going in the next few years and if he has time left after that, he can go back and tickle the cosmos.

I will even help Carlhole solder on the Singularity while Pstarr showers us with XOXOXO messages and sends parcels of organic chow to keep our minds right.

I would like to see what the entire world can do if you hook all the people together and the result belongs to everyone that sucks a breath, while Globalization is still intact we should take advantage of the logistics it provides and put it to work for the world, instead of being a conduit to make new sets of winners and losers.

America is going small when we need to go big and so is the entire world, it is poisoning us as fast as we are poisoning the great creation we have been born into.

This is the full extent of today's brain fart, I will now standby and wait for abuse.

[SeaGypsy]

Wow! Efarmer gets seriously serious!
I agree 100% plus.
On the note of Americans being able to migrate anywhere the flavour suits them?
Probably nobody has more ability or right to migrate to more places than Americans.
It's the mindset which keeps Americans bogged in America.
I believe just about everywhere in latin America welcomes immigrants from the USA regardless of financial status. Most of S.E. Asia likewise.
Wouldn't it be great to see the USA take efarmer's advice(s)?

[Don35]

I'm liking some eFarmer now! Nice rant.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '
')Estimates are that the closest possible habitations are 270 light years away, giving a round trip electronic signal a 540 year travel time. Rediculous in the extreme. Also through the journey no communication will be possible as the signals from earth would not be able to catch up with the light speed craft.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hat about degradation of Y chromosome? etc.