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THE Stephen Hawking Thread (merged)

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Hawking: "Humans Have Entered a New Stage of Evolution

Unread postby eXpat » Tue 07 Jul 2009, 14:08:00

That is true pstarr, thing is, he was saying half of the story, the hardware part, how genes make up your phisical being, so to speak. Susan Blackmore in "The Meme Machine" goes to explain the second part, and i would say is the most important one.
There´s just one more think i want to say, though, a warning (and this is not a joke or playing chicken little, another people that read the book can give their impressions) people here in PO.com is used to shocks, from a civilization/society that taugh us that we were heirs to the stars we learnt that not only the current system is going down due to PO, but our planet/ecosystem is affected as well due to GW. However the meme theory has IMHO a bigger shock for you there. Is the shock that strikes at the core of what you believe you are.
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Re: Hawking: "Humans Have Entered a New Stage of Evolution

Unread postby vision-master » Tue 07 Jul 2009, 14:19:07

Life after death is real. :)
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'L')ightning actually does strike twice

Dannion Brinkley didn't get struck by lightning just once, but twice. Now that's just careless!.

After lying dead for 28 minutes on a hospital stretcher, Dannion had to navigate his way back to his stiffening body to tell the tale of the incredible events he was just shown on the other side. This is a story of Man's future and the earth's destiny - a story where every smile counts.

Dannion does huge amounts of Hospice work comforting veterans preparing to pass on. He comforts and guides them and helps them take on the next part of the journey more consciously.

He is a really amazing person to meet so please make a point of attending one of his lectures or presentations. You can check his schedule on his website.
Interview

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Re: Hawking: "Humans Have Entered a New Stage of Evolution

Unread postby katkinkate » Wed 08 Jul 2009, 02:54:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')awking merely points out that this progressively deeper human knowledge, should be considered as part of Evolution Science because it is inevitable that this knowledge will eventually enable people to modify themselves at a fundamental level.


I read that as the idea that the growing body of knowledge directly affects all aspects of our biological heritage. Just like nature selecting for opposable thumbs, but on a vastly larger & faster scale. Up to & including direct genetic manipulation itself.

Over time, "nature" will select those members best able to manipulate & exploit this vast knowledgebase.

Modifying our genetic code.


Basically I agree with you Aaron, unless we manage to kill ourselves off. Then the evolution stops.
Kind regards, Katkinkate

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but the cultivation and perfection of human beings."
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Re: Hawking: "Humans Have Entered a New Stage of Evolution

Unread postby katkinkate » Wed 08 Jul 2009, 03:03:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '
')1st - We didn't evolve from the apes.

You're right. We are still apes.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '
')2cd - There is no such thing as 'natural selection, from random mutations'.
3rd - Darwin was wrong.

Over 200 years of research from biologists, paleontologists and geologists says you're wrong.
Kind regards, Katkinkate

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Re: Hawking: "Humans Have Entered a New Stage of Evolution

Unread postby outcast » Wed 08 Jul 2009, 06:40:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hen you will realize that some of the tech "solutions" to death (that i used to be were possible before reading this book) such as "uploading" consciousness into computers (ala SF series of the hechees) are not possible at all



Just out of curiousity, what parts of the book led you to that conclusion?
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Re: Hawking: "Humans Have Entered a New Stage of Evolution

Unread postby vision-master » Wed 08 Jul 2009, 08:25:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('katkinkate', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '
')1st - We didn't evolve from the apes.

You're right. We are still apes.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '
')2cd - There is no such thing as 'natural selection, from random mutations'.
3rd - Darwin was wrong.

Over 200 years of research from biologists, paleontologists and geologists says you're wrong.


They will be proven wrong. :)

How does 'selection' fit into 'random'? :lol:
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Re: Hawking: "Humans Have Entered a New Stage of Evolution

Unread postby rangerone314 » Wed 08 Jul 2009, 09:06:43

A random mutation more than likely caused a few roses and raspberries to develop thorns where other plants didn't.

Natural selection was the deer that avoided messing with them along the edge of woods where both deer frequent and raspberries grow.

Frequently overlooked is "sexual selection", obviously a factor with animals than plants... like a female bird developing a preference for the color blue or such.

I wonder if Hawking realizes that "Extinction" is a stage of evolution. We are possibly in the stage that leads to the Extinction stage.
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Re: Hawking: "Humans Have Entered a New Stage of Evolution

Unread postby vision-master » Wed 08 Jul 2009, 09:28:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A') random mutation more than likely caused a few roses and raspberries to develop thorns where other plants didn't.

Natural selection was the deer that avoided messing with them along the edge of woods where both deer frequent and raspberries grow.

Frequently overlooked is "sexual selection", obviously a factor with animals than plants... like a female bird developing a preference for the color blue or such.


By divine order.

Otherwise, who cares. After all random is random, without any purpose. :P
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Re: Hawking: "Humans Have Entered a New Stage of Evolution

Unread postby eXpat » Wed 08 Jul 2009, 09:39:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('outcast', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hen you will realize that some of the tech "solutions" to death (that i used to be were possible before reading this book) such as "uploading" consciousness into computers (ala SF series of the hechees) are not possible at all
Just out of curiousity, what parts of the book led you to that conclusion?
Right at the end if memory doesn´t fail me outcast, BTW here is a preview of the book if you are interested:
link Enjoy! :)
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Re: Hawking: "Humans Have Entered a New Stage of Evolution

Unread postby outcast » Wed 08 Jul 2009, 09:52:54

Thanks, I'll have a look when I have the chance.
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Re: Hawking: "Humans Have Entered a New Stage of Evolution

Unread postby rangerone314 » Wed 08 Jul 2009, 09:57:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A') random mutation more than likely caused a few roses and raspberries to develop thorns where other plants didn't.
Natural selection was the deer that avoided messing with them along the edge of woods where both deer frequent and raspberries grow.
Frequently overlooked is "sexual selection", obviously a factor with animals than plants... like a female bird developing a preference for the color blue or such.
By divine order. Otherwise, who cares. After all random is random, without any purpose. :P

Kind of irrelevant almost... if God is truly omnipotent and all knowing, he would know how to roll the dice at the beginning of the universe to make everything evolve the way He/She wanted.

A "theory of ignition" is still correct even if I am the one turning the key. The pistons still move. There is a difference between this and me waving my hand like Q in Star Trek and making the car move.
An ideology is by definition not a search for TRUTH-but a search for PROOF that its point of view is right

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Re: Hawking: "Humans Have Entered a New Stage of Evolution

Unread postby vision-master » Wed 08 Jul 2009, 10:02:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'K')ind of irrelevant almost... if God is truly omnipotent and all knowing, he would know how to roll the dice at the beginning of the universe to make everything evolve the way He/She wanted.

You make God sound like some kind of physical being? Besides, even Jesus admits there is more than one God. THE GOSPEL OF THOMAS 30) Jesus said, "Where there are three gods, they are gods. Where there are two or one, I am with him."
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Re: Hawking: "Humans Have Entered a New Stage of Evolution

Unread postby Narz » Wed 08 Jul 2009, 14:38:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', '
')Yep, there is a difference between knowledge and wisdom. It is better to have wisdom, and that is what we had before.

If "we" had it before we wouldn't have gotten to this point in the first place.

Stupid. Like women saying "oh, I knew better before I did this" (men say this too but women more it seems). Wrong. If you really, truly knew better you wouldn't have done it. Experience yields wisdom.
“Seek simplicity but distrust it”
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Re: Hawking: "Humans Have Entered a New Stage of Evolution

Unread postby Carlhole » Wed 08 Jul 2009, 14:42:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', 'Y')ep, there is a difference between knowledge and wisdom. It is better to have wisdom, and that is what we had before.
If "we" had it before we wouldn't have gotten to this point in the first place.

Checkmate!
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Re: Hawking: "Humans Have Entered a New Stage of Evolution

Unread postby rangerone314 » Thu 09 Jul 2009, 08:15:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', 'I')f "we" had it before we wouldn't have gotten to this point in the first place. Stupid. Like women saying "oh, I knew better before I did this" (men say this too but women more it seems). Wrong. If you really, truly knew better you wouldn't have done it. Experience yields wisdom.

Some cultures had wisdom. Most of them got wiped out by better armed fools with a short-term perspective.
An ideology is by definition not a search for TRUTH-but a search for PROOF that its point of view is right

Equals barter and negotiate-people with power just take

You cant defend freedom by eliminating it-unknown

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Re: Hawking: "Humans Have Entered a New Stage of Evolution

Unread postby rangerone314 » Thu 09 Jul 2009, 08:22:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GASMON', 'O')h I am quite sure he / she did not roll dice. Nobody quite gets it. Its sod all to do with religion. (WE invented that, for power and control - before we invented money). The universe is (one) of Gods experiments. He / She set the conditions, The mathematics. God is the ultimate mathematician.
The rest is history. Natural application of his mathematics. Human development and achievement though doesn't follow mathematical theory. That is why it is of interest to God. That is WHY. (full stop).

A dice roll is not truly random... when it leaves your hand it has a certain orientation, and then rotates as it approaches a surface... if one had an exact computer model of the position of the hand, dice, and the table, and all the air currents, softness of the table, velocity etc, you could predict which number comes up.

I suspect the truly random element is the human aspect... the butterfly effect going down to the quantum level of the atoms in neurons.

At the smaller quantum level observing affects the outcome... see quantum Zeno effect.
An ideology is by definition not a search for TRUTH-but a search for PROOF that its point of view is right

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Re: Hawking: "Humans Have Entered a New Stage of Evolution

Unread postby bodigami » Fri 10 Jul 2009, 00:19:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GASMON', 'O')h I am quite sure he / she did not roll dice. Nobody quite gets it. Its sod all to do with religion. (WE invented that, for power and control - before we invented money). The universe is (one) of Gods experiments. He / She set the conditions, The mathematics. God is the ultimate mathematician.
The rest is history. Natural application of his mathematics. Human development and achievement though doesn't follow mathematical theory. That is why it is of interest to God. That is WHY. (full stop).

A dice roll is not truly random... when it leaves your hand it has a certain orientation, and then rotates as it approaches a surface... if one had an exact computer model of the position of the hand, dice, and the table, and all the air currents, softness of the table, velocity etc, you could predict which number comes up.

I suspect the truly random element is the human aspect... the butterfly effect going down to the quantum level of the atoms in neurons.

At the smaller quantum level observing affects the outcome... see quantum Zeno effect.


then i am the deja vù black cat of scopenhauer.
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Stephen Hawking: Abandon Earth—Or Face Extinction

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Tue 10 Aug 2010, 00:19:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')url=http://bigthink.com/ideas/21570]Stephen Hawking's Warning: Abandon Earth—Or Face Extinction[/url] by Andrew Dermont
Hawking:"Our population and our use of the finite resources of planet Earth are growing exponentially along with our technical ability to change the environment for good or ill,"
... “Our only chance of long-term survival is not to remain inward looking on planet Earth, but to spread out into space. We have made remarkable progress in the last hundred years. But if we want to continue beyond the next hundred years, our future is in space.”

Full text

By "we" he means the select few who will blast off to carry on the species among the stars. Those who remain are toast. I've read sci-fi stories to that effect.
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