European-style Socialism would never work in the US because the gov's are too inefficient... even IF you get your tax's worth in Europe, you'd never get your tax's worth in the US...
Also the US has a larger scum/useless class of people than Europe does, so comparisons are bound to be apples/oranges.
PeakOil is You
Income inequality: comparing the US states to the 3rd world
Re: Income inequality: comparing the US states to the 3rd world
by rangerone314 » Wed 30 Dec 2009, 10:38:46
An ideology is by definition not a search for TRUTH-but a search for PROOF that its point of view is right
Equals barter and negotiate-people with power just take
You cant defend freedom by eliminating it-unknown
Our elected reps should wear sponsor patches on their suits so we know who they represent-like Nascar-Roy
Equals barter and negotiate-people with power just take
You cant defend freedom by eliminating it-unknown
Our elected reps should wear sponsor patches on their suits so we know who they represent-like Nascar-Roy
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Re: Income inequality: comparing the US states to the 3rd world
by Sixstrings » Wed 30 Dec 2009, 10:51:45
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', 'E')uropean-style Socialism would never work in the US because the gov's are too inefficient... even IF you get your tax's worth in Europe, you'd never get your tax's worth in the US...
Also the US has a larger scum/useless class of people than Europe does, so comparisons are bound to be apples/oranges.
Also the US has a larger scum/useless class of people than Europe does, so comparisons are bound to be apples/oranges.
In an equitable first world nation, all people are guaranteed a roof over their heads, food, health care, and enough income so that they aren't in abject poverty. This comes with some strings attached, like having to report in for job training and such (not just sending out a blind check like we do here).
Also in an equitable first world nation, the benefits of working are greater than what they currently are for the US working class. In France, they're guaranteed something like 30 hour workweeks (with full time pay), they have strong unions, workers' rights, and guaranteed 4 weeks vacation (maybe it's 6 weeks, I can't remember).
Given fair treatment (which strong unions ensure), great benefits, lots of vacation time, and a real living wage, then of course people would choose work over welfare.
EDIT: To clarify, I'm not really advocating a full-on massive welfare state. We just need to give working folks a chance.. that means universal healthcare, allowing strong unions in all 50 states (card check), and aggressively protecting US jobs (time for some import taxes and completely shutting down all immigration so that the labor market can stabilize and recover).
But the globalist capitalists and corporations control the government, so alas these things will never come to pass.
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Re: Income inequality: comparing the US states to the 3rd world
by MarkJ » Wed 30 Dec 2009, 11:16:05
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')n a closed system free market, the farmer would have to raise the offered wage until it's high enough to attract labor. Unfortunately, we're now living in an open system, global free market. This means there's no end in sight to the downward pressure on wages. Rather than raise the offered wage, the farmer just hires some illegal Mexican immigrants. If consumer demand requires more dairy than illegals can milk, then we go to the world market where it's a bottomless chasm of slave labor wages.
When our family was still actively working our farms, the wages were decent, but much of the compensation was in the form of housing, building lots,(financing) meals, meat, vegetables, dairy, transportation, vehicles, gas, vehicle repairs, shop/tool/equipment use, firewood, hunting, fishing and recreational rights.
The workers gained valuable knowledge as well. Most learned to do basic construction, carpentry, plumbing, electrical, welding, metalworking, vehicle and equipment maintenance/repairs.
Some of the workers literally didn't know how to change a flat tire when they started.
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MarkJ - Tar Sands
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Re: Income inequality: comparing the US states to the 3rd world
by cephalotus » Thu 31 Dec 2009, 05:36:14
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dsula', '[')
As a German you get hammered by taxes like there's no tomorrow. If you are a well educated unmarried professional (not banker millionaire), you fork over 70% of your income. That is not good, because it begs the question, why work if you could get almost the same standard of living by being a unemployed social disfunct idiot?
As a German you get hammered by taxes like there's no tomorrow. If you are a well educated unmarried professional (not banker millionaire), you fork over 70% of your income. That is not good, because it begs the question, why work if you could get almost the same standard of living by being a unemployed social disfunct idiot?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dsula', '.')..
If you make $100k and pay $50k in taxes and the lazy asshole next door lives on $20k wellfare. Does it bother you? Maybe not, you've got job satisfaction. What if you pay $70k in taxes and he gets $30k in wellfare? And he gets to hang out at the bar everyday while you work 10 hour days. Still don't bother you? There's a point everybody breaks.
Why are you lying?
If you are earning 69k Euro a year (= 100k US$ a year) you are paying 18.6kEuro on taxes in the highest(!) tax category.
You are also paying 11,6kEuro for insurances (not taxes) for unemployment, health care and pensions. (that's the maximum, you don't pay more for that even if you earn 1 Mio Euro a year)
If you are umemployed (and not to old) you will get "Arbeitslosengeld 1" which is roughly 60% of your previous income for 12 months.
If you are unemployed for longer times or if you are the "unemployed social disfunct idiot" in Germany you get "Arbeitslosengeld 2", which includes a paid rent + heating costs (+free health care) and 351 Euro a month = 4,212 Euro per year.
Now compare that with the income of your tax payer...
If you have a low wage job earning only 20kEuro a year you are paying exactly 1843 Euro per year on income taxes in the highest tax category, if you have a wife you are paying exactly zero income taxes with that income.
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