$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')'m not so sure about that. Marine training, for example, rubs out the old personality and imposes a new one. I think the software has as much to do with behaviour as the hardware.
Of course I'm a software engineer, so my second-natural mode of thought predisposes me to think so.
PeakOil is You
I'm extra smart. Shouldn't I pass on my genes?
by linlithgowoil » Thu 28 Jul 2005, 12:23:18
I saw a programme that said the army finds it very hard to get soldiers to actually have that killer instinct. your average conscript doesnt have it usually - most people would do anything to avoid killing another person. however, people who voluntarily join the army are a different story. many of these people have the killer instinct already and possibly enjoy killing people. this is all genetic.
-
linlithgowoil - Tar Sands
- Posts: 828
- Joined: Mon 20 Dec 2004, 04:00:00
- Location: Scotland
by threadbear » Thu 28 Jul 2005, 13:10:39
We should limit our reproduction with birth control. What part of that is difficult to understand and what part of it is inhumane?
The first thing women do when given a choice, in any part of the world, if they have access to birth control, is to take it.
What really gets on my nerves is dragging euthanasia, abortion, etc..etc.. into it. These are side issues. Distractions. It would be absolutely fine with me if every woman had her tubes tied after her first child. Finito bambino.
If the world became a living hell and govts. mandated this, I'd cheer.
It's the very height of narcissism for irresponsible breeders to think that their (pick one)(a) great intelligence (b) beauty (c) the power of their love, can override a mathematical reality. Too many people
I also take GREAT exception to the idea that all suffering is meaningful. Not so. We feel this in our hearts. When sadness is touched with softness, when grief carries with it a shard of light, that's meaningful.
Other forms of suffering are akin to placing one's hand on the hot element of a stove, designed to incite change--and quickly.
Linlith, If you want to place your hands and those of your future children on the hot element of life in a peak old world, go ahead. But understand, not only are your many children going to suffer a terrrible animal existence, you and your entire family will suffer the wrath of your non Catholic neighbours.
The first thing women do when given a choice, in any part of the world, if they have access to birth control, is to take it.
What really gets on my nerves is dragging euthanasia, abortion, etc..etc.. into it. These are side issues. Distractions. It would be absolutely fine with me if every woman had her tubes tied after her first child. Finito bambino.
If the world became a living hell and govts. mandated this, I'd cheer.
It's the very height of narcissism for irresponsible breeders to think that their (pick one)(a) great intelligence (b) beauty (c) the power of their love, can override a mathematical reality. Too many people
I also take GREAT exception to the idea that all suffering is meaningful. Not so. We feel this in our hearts. When sadness is touched with softness, when grief carries with it a shard of light, that's meaningful.
Other forms of suffering are akin to placing one's hand on the hot element of a stove, designed to incite change--and quickly.
Linlith, If you want to place your hands and those of your future children on the hot element of life in a peak old world, go ahead. But understand, not only are your many children going to suffer a terrrible animal existence, you and your entire family will suffer the wrath of your non Catholic neighbours.
-
threadbear - Expert
- Posts: 7577
- Joined: Sat 22 Jan 2005, 04:00:00
by Falconoffury » Thu 28 Jul 2005, 14:00:54
Lin, a lot of the stuff you say, you pass as fact, when it is really opinion.
When it comes to euthanasia, I think at the very least the people who ask to die be allowed to die. And then, there are some people who are in so much pain and have no hope of survival who should also be put down. Mentaly or physically retarded people can live some quality of life in many cases. Some diseases like muscular dystrophy can still allow victims to live some quality of life. It's just the people who really have no hope who should be put down.
I've seen military situations in TV shows and movies where a soldier gets badly wounded and won't last long, and his comrades sometimes give him an overdose of painkillers to put him out of his misery. This looks like an act of mercy to me.
Lin, perhaps if you shared my opinion that our population will go down below 1 billion people, then your views would change, but I think that's the only way they would change.
When it comes to euthanasia, I think at the very least the people who ask to die be allowed to die. And then, there are some people who are in so much pain and have no hope of survival who should also be put down. Mentaly or physically retarded people can live some quality of life in many cases. Some diseases like muscular dystrophy can still allow victims to live some quality of life. It's just the people who really have no hope who should be put down.
I've seen military situations in TV shows and movies where a soldier gets badly wounded and won't last long, and his comrades sometimes give him an overdose of painkillers to put him out of his misery. This looks like an act of mercy to me.
Lin, perhaps if you shared my opinion that our population will go down below 1 billion people, then your views would change, but I think that's the only way they would change.
"If humans don't control their numbers, nature will." -Pimentel
"There is not enough trash to go around for everyone," said Banrel, one of the participants in the cattle massacre.
"Bush, Bush, listen well: Two shoes on your head," the protesters chant
"There is not enough trash to go around for everyone," said Banrel, one of the participants in the cattle massacre.
"Bush, Bush, listen well: Two shoes on your head," the protesters chant
-
Falconoffury - Expert
- Posts: 1395
- Joined: Tue 25 May 2004, 03:00:00
by k_semler » Thu 28 Jul 2005, 15:11:08
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('linlithgowoil', '
')The trouble with your vision of the future is that it would cause enormous misery amongst people. I fail to see how having a society where you are only valued if you are able bodied and not a burden on society would be good. You'd have people murdering their parents because they couldnt be bothered looking after them etc.
And, again, you'd only be able to have such a society by ruling it with an iron fist and exterminating any opposition. You really think that would be a nice society to live in? - Secret police smashing down doors, removing babies who werent supposed to be born and murdering them?
')The trouble with your vision of the future is that it would cause enormous misery amongst people. I fail to see how having a society where you are only valued if you are able bodied and not a burden on society would be good. You'd have people murdering their parents because they couldnt be bothered looking after them etc.
And, again, you'd only be able to have such a society by ruling it with an iron fist and exterminating any opposition. You really think that would be a nice society to live in? - Secret police smashing down doors, removing babies who werent supposed to be born and murdering them?
That was already tried. See WWII, specifically Nazi Germany. Also see 70 years of the USSR, and the red march of Chairman Mao. See the DPRK. Look at Pol-Pot, and Ho Chi Mihn.
Here Lies the United States Of America.
July 04, 1776 - June 23 2005
Epitaph: "The Experiment Is Over."
Rest In Peace.
Eminent Domain Was The Murderer.
July 04, 1776 - June 23 2005
Epitaph: "The Experiment Is Over."
Rest In Peace.
Eminent Domain Was The Murderer.
- k_semler
- Heavy Crude
- Posts: 1797
- Joined: Mon 17 May 2004, 03:00:00
- Location: Democratic People's Republic of Washington
by Liamj » Fri 29 Jul 2005, 00:07:01
Great stuff, fascinating.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Raxozanne', '
')There was a UK doctor on the lunchtime news that said he knew of cases in the UK where people had called up some helpline complaining that hospitals were denying their terminally ill (very ill) relatives food or water even when they were screaming out for them
I don't think that is right. People should not be denyed food/water if they are asking for some even if they will die soon.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Raxozanne', '
')There was a UK doctor on the lunchtime news that said he knew of cases in the UK where people had called up some helpline complaining that hospitals were denying their terminally ill (very ill) relatives food or water even when they were screaming out for them
I don't think that is right. People should not be denyed food/water if they are asking for some even if they will die soon.
I agree, thats horrific.
And thats what we've got now, and are booked to get more of: systematic failure to meet politically set objectives. Humanist policy sez keep everybody alive as long as possible, but economic rationalist policy sez cut the margins to the bone and then some.
Meanwhile a culture that tells itself it values all, shuts away or abandons the old, the sick, the young, the mad, the disabled and the criminal. 'Hypocrisy' doesn't cover it.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '
')We should limit our reproduction with birth control. What part of that is difficult to understand and what part of it is inhumane?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')...
What really gets on my nerves is dragging euthanasia, abortion, etc..etc.. into it. These are side issues. Distractions. It would be absolutely fine with me if every woman had her tubes tied after her first child. Finito bambino.
If the world became a living hell and govts. mandated this, I'd cheer.
Making as many of us, and hopefully thus as many of them aware of the options & consequences as possible, that seems worth doing.
Disagree that euthanasia is a distraction, would agree its secondary, or of lesser immediate importance than birth control. But i think its got potential, despite constant fearmongering that any euthanasia means random murder. Does having any firearms mean lots of shooting?
That a totalitarian state would be inevitably reqd to enforce 1 child is also fear-mongering, designed to obscure the argument.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('linlithgowoil', ' ')...Someone who wants to murder people clearly has a genetic disorder ...
] and makes sense. I happen to think responsibility about population does make sense, and i know it doesn't mean "killing to 'tards" as someone (else) charmingly said.