[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('anador', 'I') grew up on a rural farm in se New England. Hereford cattle chickens etc... Conditioning has little to do with it.

Small rural towns are cities of a different kind, I don't like living in a skyscraper, but three and four story downtowns are extremely comfortable. Especially when the countryside is accessible and nearby. Lifestyle is what you make of it, town can be banal, but so can country.

[anador]

Most new england cities fit this desciption, even Boston, for all its population, is more compact than san francisco. Sprawl is the true enemy. Cities require well defined edges to have an acceptable relationship with nature and the countryside.

im not suggesting Boston doesnt have a sprawl problem, it does, but it is certainly not five hours to go hunting, I would say 45 minutes to an hour tops to get through the suburbs to Inland massachusetts.

[AgentR11]

Problem with tackling sprawl is that what is sprawl to some is a small city to others. Some people in my town do commute to Houston daily. On the other hand, both Houston and my town have existed since the 1800's, and there is, and always has been, substantial industry here. My example of Carthage is smaller, and is more ag focused, with food packaging and rail terminal for cargo shipment, but same idea. 40 miles from Shreveport, LA.

Shreveport Aerial
Shreveport itself is a good example of well mixed urban, ag, single family homes, substantial cargo rail infrastructure etc.

Sprawl is sprawl I think because of automobiles; absent autos, the sprawl area doesn't die, but rather morphs into residential area of whatever town it is legally attached to. A few bad examples of giant housing blobs in the middle of nowhere, not withstanding, particularly referring to CA, Los Angeles and San Francisco the likely largest offenders.

[Newfie]

What you get in Washington, DC are what I call "mushroom towns." They build an extension to the Metro, put in a stop, and in 3 years you have a town of 250,000. You can see this when driving the beltway. Lumps of 30 story buildings here and there. All surrounded by suburbs.

When I drive to DC I can be 15 miles from my destination with 30 minutes to spare and be 2 hours late. Frequent occurrence.

[anador]

Yeah same in Miami, a place it would take me 20 minutes to get to in SE Mass. takes an hour or more in SE Fla.

Well, when i drove that is... Car free for 3 months

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'W')hat you get in Washington, DC are what I call "mushroom towns." They build an extension to the Metro, put in a stop, and in 3 years you have a town of 250,000. You can see this when driving the beltway. Lumps of 30 story buildings here and there. All surrounded by suburbs.

[anador]

Transit oriented development is supposed to be easier to access by train than by car. That's kind of the point. So I guess newfies inconvenience means it works lol. Do you take the train often dinopello?

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('anador', 'T')ransit oriented development is supposed to be easier to access by train than by car. That's kind of the point. So I guess newfies inconvenience means it works lol. Do you take the train often dinopello?

[Pops]

I think more along the lines of what is the purpose of the "non-rural" place, like so:

A town serves the rural area, a city is served by the rural area.

Once you get to the point that the focus is inward and divorced from the environment and ag, that is urban. Whether it's 10k or 10M doesn't really matter, the basis of individual urban survival is "The Economy" and specifically "a Job".

Obviously today the basis of most rural existence is a Job as well but I'm thinking once the oily sheen is removed.

Quibbling over whether it's a 20 minute streetwalk to a walmart parking lot or a 20 minute walk down the stairwell really doesn't matter much.

[Newfie]

OK D, you got off by an order of magnitude on population. But the point of the mushroom towns is still valid, as you note.

Essentially the entire NEC from DC to Boston is one huge urban area.

Recently reading about sea rise. I see Scientic American quoting Hansen as saying sea levels coul rise a much as 5 meters by 2100. That's about 16 feet in under 90 years or roughly 1.5 feet per decade. Assuming that is right for the moment, how would that effect livability in NYC, DC, Baltimore, Norfolk, Savana, Jacksonville, Miami, etc? What would be cost to protect those cities?

Perhaps, when picking a city to live in we should have a check list.
Abundent fresh water supplies, out of a drought zone
Sufficiently high above water that a 6 foot rise is tolerable...where are your sewer plants.
Close to agriculture, where food stuffs can be floated down river
Abundant renewable energy for heat and cooling...not coal, or nukes, or hydro

[anador]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'I') think more along the lines of what is the purpose of the "non-rural" place, like so:

A town serves the rural area, a city is served by the rural area.

[anador]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'O')K D, you got off by an order of magnitude on population. But the point of the mushroom towns is still valid, as you note.

Essentially the entire NEC from DC to Boston is one huge urban area.

Recently reading about sea rise. I see Scientic American quoting Hansen as saying sea levels coul rise a much as 5 meters by 2100. That's about 16 feet in under 90 years or roughly 1.5 feet per decade. Assuming that is right for the moment, how would that effect livability in NYC, DC, Baltimore, Norfolk, Savana, Jacksonville, Miami, etc? What would be cost to protect those cities?

Perhaps, when picking a city to live in we should have a check list.
Abundent fresh water supplies, out of a drought zone
Sufficiently high above water that a 6 foot rise is tolerable...where are your sewer plants.
Close to agriculture, where food stuffs can be floated down river
Abundant renewable energy for heat and cooling...not coal, or nukes, or hydro

[dolanbaker]

Sea water, I wouldn't want to buy a second-hand car there.

[Lore]

Sea levels have risen nearly a foot in some areas over the last hundred years. Wonder what the pictures of Miami will look like in the next fifty with an additional couple of feet?

On a side note, FEMA just announced that it's going to have to borrow more money to support its national flood insurance program.

[SeaGypsy]

Born western PA raised Alice Springs NT, rural VIC, far north NSW, then a 'little further north each year'.

[lowem]

The figures on sea level rise are all over the place. A few inches over a decade here, a foot over a century there, all these seem insignificant in comparison. The big worry is still some kind of glacier melt tipping point, a time when things accelerate quickly. Inches per year instead of inches per decade. Perhaps faster. Will this happen? Who knows. It may be already happening. Look at the one about 70% of Venice getting flooded. Bits and pieces here and there, like that.

[anador]

The ability of People to ignore such in-your-face unprecedented signs of looming change and future disaster is truly amazing, AMAZING! people in Miami drive through the tidewater and it only receives a couple chuckles as a side note by the well coiffed news anchors.

Law of previous investment I guess...

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('anador', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'I') think more along the lines of what is the purpose of the "non-rural" place, like so:

A town serves the rural area, a city is served by the rural area.

[dolanbaker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lowem', '[')url=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/339/36499308.jpg/][/url]

The figures on sea level rise are all over the place. A few inches over a decade here, a foot over a century there, all these seem insignificant in comparison. The big worry is still some kind of glacier melt tipping point, a time when things accelerate quickly. Inches per year instead of inches per decade. Perhaps faster. Will this happen? Who knows. It may be already happening. Look at the one about 70% of Venice getting flooded. Bits and pieces here and there, like that.