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Cause & effect: riots, rioting and rioters pt 1 (merged) Arc

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Bookies taking bets on cities that will riot...

Unread postby davep » Mon 08 Dec 2008, 09:28:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'P')ick your city one and all. When four moderators/administrators agree that a particular city is the first to a) riot and b) due to economic factors we will declare the winners.



Police shooting a kid is not exactly "economic factors"... But make a case and well see if we can get four mods/admins to agree?


Can you ever get four mods/admins to agree?
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Re: Bookies taking bets on cities that will riot...

Unread postby wisconsin_cur » Mon 08 Dec 2008, 09:37:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('davep', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'P')ick your city one and all. When four moderators/administrators agree that a particular city is the first to a) riot and b) due to economic factors we will declare the winners.



Police shooting a kid is not exactly "economic factors"... But make a case and well see if we can get four mods/admins to agree?


Can you ever get four mods/admins to agree?


:)

Perhaps I was too optimistic... I think... hope that on this kind of issue we could. It is a high bar but I didn't want to declare a winner because an unemployed guy threw a bottle through a window.

The gamble, as it was described by the bookies, is naturally a little fuzzy...

Besides I can't afford to give these prizes out to just anybody!

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')ach winner will receive an private message with a link to a picture of a cute doggie from me with which to right click and save as desktop to remind you and yours of your "hot nose" (aka sage insight).

;)
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Re: Bookies taking bets on cities that will riot...

Unread postby uNkNowN ElEmEnt » Mon 08 Dec 2008, 10:07:18

If you read the article, I think towards the bottom they mention it was brought on by economic tensions.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he shooting angered Greek youths, already resentful about a widening gap between rich and poor. Violence at student rallies and fire bomb attacks by anarchists are common, especially in Athens' Exarchia district where the boy was shot.


Does it count if they are predisposed to violence? As in the case of tha arguement against France. If there is ever present violence etc because of race, or economic disparity does it count?
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Re: Bookies taking bets on cities that will riot...

Unread postby wisconsin_cur » Mon 08 Dec 2008, 10:13:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('uNkNowN ElEmEnt', 'I')f you read the article, I think towards the bottom they mention it was brought on by economic tensions.


Actually the first paragraph.



... here I might be one of the "difficult mods"... what does it mean to be "due too" economic factors... I would say it is due to a teen being shot and a general dis-satisfaction with the government. Economics plays a role for sure, it is hard to imagine rioting in a place with almost full employment and growing prosperity, but I guess this would not pass the bar for me personally...

...but I will bow before the collective wisdom of others if four mods/admins disagree.
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Re: Bookies taking bets on cities that will riot...

Unread postby Quinny » Mon 08 Dec 2008, 18:49:04

As I see it anyone who choese Athens desrves it because

1) Economic factors are a major part

and

2) Athens !! They must be prescient

My intial ? Did anyone pick Athens?
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Re: Bookies taking bets on cities that will riot...

Unread postby wisconsin_cur » Tue 09 Dec 2008, 02:39:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', 'Header_Rack Los Angeles CA USA
Spanktron9 Los Angeles CA
double down: S. of the 10, east of the 405, west of the 60
IndigoMoon Chicago Il
Ludi Los Angeles CA
DaveP Liverpool England UK
The48thronin Seoul South Korea
emeraldg40 Atlanta GA
Specop_007 Atlanta GA
EastBay Los Angeles CA
Ainan Los Angeles CA
Cloud9 Miami FL
latestarter Miami FL
novus Las Vegas NV
Kristen Atlanta GA
Magus Los Angeles CA
wisconsin_cur Lahore Pakistan
ReverseEngineer Atlanta GA
Loki Los Angeles
NYC
Detroit
DoomLover666 Los Angeles CA
Quinny Paris France (I assume you did not mean Illinois)
Island Crow Bangkok Thailand
nobodypanic Reykjavik Iceland
---------------------------Deadline ------------------
Revi Los Angeles CA

')
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Re: Bookies taking bets on cities that will riot...

Unread postby idiom » Tue 09 Dec 2008, 03:56:08

NobodyPanic got a dud. I guess those Icelanders just won't riot come hell or highwater.
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Re: Bookies taking bets on cities that will riot...

Unread postby Quinny » Tue 09 Dec 2008, 04:32:24

Nobody chose Athens - Prize should go to nearest City ;)
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Re: Bookies taking bets on cities that will riot...

Unread postby ReverseEngineer » Tue 09 Dec 2008, 04:50:04

How about we do this by country, rather than trying to pick one city Worldwide which was the "first" to Riot?

Which city in the USA will be first? Which Canadian city? Which German City? Etc.

We can have more winners this way, plus also individual posters from each country do have I would think a better "feel" for what is going on there. One problem we have with Greece is just there don't seem to be any Greek members here. This kind of put Greece off the Radar for discussion. Also really tough is the PRC. Information about what is happening inside the PRC is VERY restricted, a million people could be rioting there as we speak and nobody in the West would know about it. Maybe if it was in Beijing we might find out about it, but not out in some of the smaller (but still HUGE) cities out in the provinces.

I'm still holding to Atlanta as my choice for first American City, based on some of the posting from GA residents here. LA is a tinderbox also though, so its a tough call.

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Re: Bookies taking bets on cities that will riot...

Unread postby wisconsin_cur » Tue 09 Dec 2008, 05:03:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', '
')
We can have more winners this way,


Are you advocating grade inflation?

When it comes to gambling (see the title of the thread) I'm more of a winner take all kind of guy myself.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')plus also individual posters from each country do have I would think a better "feel" for what is going on there. One problem we have with Greece is just there don't seem to be any Greek members here. This kind of put Greece off the Radar for discussion.

Athens has not been declared the first via the rules of the contest.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Also really tough is the PRC. Information about what is happening inside the PRC is VERY restricted, a million people could be rioting there as we speak and nobody in the West would know about it. Maybe if it was in Beijing we might find out about it, but not out in some of the smaller (but still HUGE) cities out in the provinces.


I agree that some city within mainland China maybe the first or the biggest to riot. I question whether a million could riot and we would never know. Much smaller... disturbances are published regularly in the world press.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')I'm still holding to Atlanta as my choice for first American City, based on some of the posting from GA residents here. LA is a tinderbox also though, so its a tough call.

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Re: Bookies taking bets on cities that will riot...

Unread postby Revi » Tue 09 Dec 2008, 13:55:44

I've been to Athens, but I didn't pick it because it seemed so mellow. So does Copenhagen, but you should see the place on New Years Eve!

Athens has a lot of people crammed into 3 and 4 story apartment blocks.

I say we give it to nobody panic. Iceland had a little protest.
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Re: Bookies taking bets on cities that will riot...

Unread postby catbox » Tue 09 Dec 2008, 18:13:39

I think China has a good chance on getting nutty...we don't buy, they don't work:

Link 1


Link 2

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Re: Bookies taking bets on cities that will riot...

Unread postby wisconsin_cur » Sun 14 Dec 2008, 02:29:24

Europe is Afraid


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he protests continued yesterday and more demonstrations are planned. Some see a foretaste of the next phase of the global financial crisis, sensing in the tear gas and chants a warning to European leaders of what may unfold elsewhere if they do not take into account the frustrations of their people.

Sympathy protests from Moscow to Madrid helped to fuel such concerns, as did Nicolas Sarkozy, the French president, who mentioned the Greek upheaval to justify his rejection of budget proposals that would have cushioned the wealthy from losses.


...

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'L')ast week they faced a popular uprising by thousands of citizens over a host of grievances from corruption in the government to low salaries and unemployment among the young. The rhetoric was enough to send a shiver down the spine of world leaders meeting in Brussels to discuss a multi-billion-euro bailout.

“Athens must burn, especially the banks,” a teenager called Marios in a hooded sweat-shirt and jeans told me during a protest on Friday.

Nearby, rioters had smashed the display screens of cash dispensers and shattered dozens of shop windows, carting off mobile telephones, watches, clothes and computers. A few rioters dragged a drinks refrigerator on to the street, ripped off the back and filled their arms with bottles and cans. They drank a few and used the rest as projectiles.

Down the road, policemen watched from behind riot shields but did nothing: the government has ordered them not to use force in order to avoid further bloodshed. This has fuelled anger among shopkeepers who complained that Athens, after being rebuilt amid great fanfare for the Olympics, had been left to burn.

“People have a right to demonstrate,” said Katarini Halaounis, who lost thousands of pounds worth of stock when protesters looted her jewellery shop on Monday, “but not to destroy shops and businesses that have taken a lifetime to build. The government just doesn’t seem to be interested.”
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Re: Bookies taking bets on cities that will riot...

Unread postby wisconsin_cur » Sun 14 Dec 2008, 02:59:55

Ok, I'll buy in that Athens is the winner:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hose of us who live here - who have seen how frayed the fabric of public order can become - now know, in no uncertain terms, that the orgy of violence that has gripped this beautiful land masks a deeper malaise. It is a sickness that starts not so much at the top but at the bottom of Greek society, in the ranks of its troubled youth. For many these are a lost generation, raised in an education system that is undeniably shambolic and hit by whopping levels of unemployment (70 per cent among the 18-25s) in a country where joblessness this month jumped to 7.4 per cent. If they can find work remuneration rarely rises above €700 (this is, after all, the self-styled €700 generation), never mind the number of qualifications it took to get the job. Often polyglot PhD holders will be serving tourists at tables in resorts. One in five Greeks lives beneath the poverty line. Exposed to the ills of Greek society as never before, they have also become increasingly frustrated witnesses of allegations of corruption implicating senior conservative government officials and a series of scandals that have so far cost four ministers their jobs.

With these grievances in mind, young people (who would not normally see themselves as revolutionaries and are a far-cry from the 'extremists' Prime Minister Costas Karamanlis says are behind the disturbances) have begun stockpiling stones, rocks and crushed marble slabs from Salonika in the north to the resort islands of Corfu and Crete in the south.

They have also started selling them on - at three stones a euro - to other protesters whose parents may live in Hollywood-style opulence, or indeed on the breadline, but who are bonded by a common desire to hurl them at that hated symbol of authority: the police.


Link

[s]If other mods chime in with agreement than I will award the prize to the geographically closest city nominated.[/s]

The contest continues see unknown's post below.
Last edited by wisconsin_cur on Sun 14 Dec 2008, 04:00:02, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bookies taking bets on cities that will riot...

Unread postby uNkNowN ElEmEnt » Sun 14 Dec 2008, 03:55:11

I think we should pick the first city that someone on the list chose to go up, not the nearest city. Its not the same thing. So the winner would be the first of our choices even if in all it was the 5th city to go up world wide.

Might get some to pick other cities instead of having 6 LA's and 5 Atlanta's etc. And it would keep the bets going longer instead of already calling a winner.
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Re: Bookies taking bets on cities that will riot...

Unread postby wisconsin_cur » Sun 14 Dec 2008, 03:58:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('uNkNowN ElEmEnt', 'I') think we should pick the first city that someone on the list chose to go up, not the nearest city. Its not the same thing. So the winner would be the first of our choices even if in all it was the 5th city to go up world wide.

Might get some to pick other cities instead of having 6 LA's and 5 Atlanta's etc. And it would keep the bets going longer instead of already calling a winner.


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Re: Bookies taking bets on cities that will riot...

Unread postby Byron100 » Sun 14 Dec 2008, 12:02:42

Yeah, maybe I'll get lucky and get to see my own city (Atlanta) riot...LOL.

Heck, we've already had a gasoline shortage, and there's still the chance we could run out of water, should the summer drought return next year. Jobs are vanishing like summer dew around here, and houses are being foreclosed upon at some of the fastest rates in the country, so it really might not be that long before this city burns.

I'll be sure to post video footage of such an event if it really does happen here. :-D
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Re: Bookies taking bets on cities that will riot...

Unread postby dorlomin » Sun 14 Dec 2008, 12:33:44

Cairo had some pretty serious demonstrations about food this year, it has a deeply dissafected population, lots of youths and is the home of both Muslim Brotherhood and Qutb. Too late to enter and not too bothered but Id have said Cairo was close to the top of contenders.

Someone has already gotten Paris, possibly the only city in the world that regards it history of rioting with pride. Much of the city is deliberately built too make it harder for roiters. Some of the most famous ones being during the French revolution, 1871 when the city was taken over by the commune, 1944 just before the allies arrived, 1968 when student Marxists thought they had started a revolution and 2005. "The French are revolting".
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Re: Bookies taking bets on cities that will riot...

Unread postby dorlomin » Sun 14 Dec 2008, 12:52:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', '
')I agree that some city within mainland China maybe the first or the biggest to riot. I question whether a million could riot and we would never know. Much smaller... disturbances are published regularly in the world press.
Thing with picking a Chinese city is that they have already had a long running series of social and economic problems that have resulted in demonstrations and riots. There is a running theory that the central party is kind off happy for these problems to happen and be reported, the thinking goes that China is a huge huge complex country and very difficult to control. Local party bosses are often very corrupt and none to responsive to Bejings dictat. The smaller disturbances and giving them press coverage is one of the ways that the central party puts pressure on the local party bosses and justifies its crack downs on corruption. If the politburo wants riots to cease it merely does what it did in 89, bring in a PLA division from the otherside of the country and inform the city if they dont behave they unleash the PLA. They also have an elite police unit (the ones that guarded the olympic torch) that specialises on cracking down. From what I have read they are truly scary frackers.

But the point I was trying to make (before wandering off) is that in China, riots over the economy have been going on for a few years now, and press coverage is political. Having said that those riots have mostly been over things like land and polution not unemployment. Big riots in the pearl river delta (especialy Gaungzhou or Shenzen) or another areas like will most likely be about unemployment caused by the economic downturn.

(edited for clarity)
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Re: Bookies taking bets on cities that will riot...

Unread postby Quinny » Sun 14 Dec 2008, 13:06:42

So who would have won. :(

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('uNkNowN ElEmEnt', 'I') think we should pick the first city that someone on the list chose to go up, not the nearest city. Its not the same thing. So the winner would be the first of our choices even if in all it was the 5th city to go up world wide.

Might get some to pick other cities instead of having 6 LA's and 5 Atlanta's etc. And it would keep the bets going longer instead of already calling a winner.


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