[TonyPrep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'O')ilfinder created several diversion and distractions when I pointed out that Green River kerogen has not, and can not, be produced.

[Maddog78]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')t this point I don't even really care all that much about this particular oil shale deposit. Why? Because there are a lot of other shales - like the Bakken, the Woodford, and the Tuscaloosa - which have tons of high-quality, thermally-mature oil which doesn't need all the processing this thermally-immature kerogen does. If you're gonna drill holes into a shale, might as well go after the good stuff.

[Serial_Worrier]

Wow - good work OF2! I have faith in American technology to increase the world's oil supply. Remember whatever increased domestic production goes on the world market, it's not about decreasing foreign oil dependence!

[ian807]

At the end of the day, we'll leave a lot of oil in the ground because:

1) It costs too much to get it out.

2) It takes more energy to get it out than you get from the oil.

We have some flexibility here, but not much. At a certain point, it doesn't make economic sense and without some *really* revolutionary technology, we can't increase flow rates of US oil fields (e.g Colorado shale or Bakkan) enough to make a well energy positive.

Wish it were otherwise. Not betting on it.

Remember, this will be an economic crisis long before we literally run out of gas. In the near term, I'd worry about the never ending recession, not freezing in the dark.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheAntiDoomer', 'T')he fact is that sooner or later the technology will be there to produce the oil from this formation at some rate. Even without this tech this oil shale could be mined and burned directly for power to run electric vehicles Estonia has been doing it for years:

http://www.kirj.ee/public/oilshale/Est-OS.htm

[copious.abundance]

Don't forget this:

>>> Bloomberg <<<
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')etrobras, which has been producing oil from shale commercially for 30 years in Brazil's Parana state, is seeking to expand oil output in the U.S. and other markets and to use its patented Petrosix processing technology to diversify the sources of oil, according to the statement.

The company only produces about 3,800 barrels of oil a day using its process in Brazil. If it's proven viable, the Utah project, which will receive $12 million for studies over the next 12 months, can produce much more, Epifanio said.

[copious.abundance]

Here's the Wiki page on that Petrosix process:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrosix

Maybe they'll scale this up big-time in Utah, and we can have Petrobras give us mass quantities of oil from their deepwater Brazil fields and mass quantities of oil from their Utah oil shale joint venture.

[TheDude]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheAntiDoomer', '
')Wrong again YOU lying sack of pitulie waste:

http://www.pohivork.ee/index.php?id=311&L=1

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')roduction of electricity in Estonia is predominantly based on a domestic fuel – oil shale. Electricity produced from this mineral approached 95% of the total electrical energy supplied to our electrical network last year. The largest oil shale mining company in Estonia is AS Eesti Põlevkivi.

[AirlinePilot]

Have to hand this round to pstarr Oilly.

I will also add that as a moderator lets keep the insult and attack off the thread. You guys/gals are big enough and smart enough to debate this without getting pissy.

There is one constant here for the new readers to grasp. OF2 has been unable to separate wishing and hoping from reality. Its typically the first stages we all go through when confronted with the idea that we are very near or past the peak of world oil production. What matters most is actual production. Extraction rates and proven reserves are what matter to the bottom line.

If your not sure about Oil Shale and Tar Sands you really need to do your homework. OF2 is misrepresenting reality here and most of us who have been around this topic long enough know that as time marches on these particular sources do little to affect the overall outcome. I'd even suggest that with the present investing environment due to crude prices they may have a very tough time growing at all. There is plenty of material here and over at The Oil Drum to do your own research with. I'd suggest finding out ON YOUR OWN what is what with regard to this portion of the debate.

pstarr,

Good job mate, lets just keep it civil. I'd like to see this thread not get split of into the HOF, it's valuable to folks here if you can stay on track with the rebuttals without sinking into the crap heap.

[TonyPrep]

I think it's also worth repeating, from time to time, that OF2 does not want any mitigation actions to occur, even if he does realise that peak is close. He doesn't think human societies should ever prepare for scenarios that they may deduce, from time to time. He thinks adaptation at the time the problem arises, is the best course. OF2 wants us to treat natural limits in the same way we would some unanticipated natural disasters (like asteroid strikes, supervolcanoes, etc). This almost certainly goes for climate change mitigation also.

So readers of his posts should understand that his goal is that we should never mitigate against future problems.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheAntiDoomer', '
')Wrong again YOU lying sack of pitulie waste:

http://www.pohivork.ee/index.php?id=311&L=1

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')roduction of electricity in Estonia is predominantly based on a domestic fuel – oil shale. Electricity produced from this mineral approached 95% of the total electrical energy supplied to our electrical network last year. The largest oil shale mining company in Estonia is AS Eesti Põlevkivi.

[Vogelzang]

Its one tool in the fight against the neo-Stalinists.

http://www.geocities.com/sciliterature/ ... eLinks.htm

[timmatoil]

Oilwatch Monthly reports that despite significant cuts “supply is still significantly higher than demand.” On March 15, “OPEC agreed that no further oil cuts in oil production will be made and that it will focus in the coming months on complying with previously announced cuts of 4.2 million bpd – 80% of which has been achieved to date in circumstances where OPEC’s price target of US$70 has not been achieved, and where OPEC now thinks it ‘has to live with’ a US$42 price.”

Via Stock Research Portal (http://www.stockresearchportal.com)

It seems like OPEC is having less and less influence over oil. Any thoughts?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'T')hanks AP. I was civil (though admittedly sarcastic) until he called me a liar.