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Page added on June 20, 2018
How $6 Trillion of Fossil Fuel Investments Got Dumped Thanks to Green Campaigners
It has become one of the fastest growing political campaigns in human history, surpassing similar battles against the tobacco industry and the fight against apartheid in South Africa. Its logic is simple: the only way to avoid climate change and dangerous levels of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere is for most fossil fuel reserves to stay in the ground.
Campaigners launched the fossil fuel divestment campaign in the early 2010s. Their argument was that you curb consumption of fossil fuels if you stop investing in the companies involved in extracting and burning them. Create a significant enough stigma, they argued, and this issue will shoot up the political agenda.
In the past five years or so, investment funds, public institutions and individuals have duly divested around US$6.15 trillion (£4.6 trillion) of fossil fuel assets. It has helped that the campaign attracted a number of prestigious institutions early on, including the British Medical Association, University College London, University of California, the Church of England and the World Council of Churches (representing more than a half billion Christians globally).
The campaign gained further traction after a London-based think tank argued that fossil fuels were in any case a bad investment because the true costs of environmental damage had not been priced in and that at some point there would be a severe correction.
The battle is far from over, however, as demonstrated by the recent decision of the Church of Scotland not to divest. One of the cornerstones of European faith, whose teachings have helped shape everyone from Robert Burns to Rupert Murdoch, its annual general assembly held an impassioned two-hour debate on whether to remove oil and gas stocks from its £443m investment fund.
The high road
The Church of Scotland has form in this regard: it had already divested its coal and tar sands investments two years earlier. Ahead of the latest debate, its official general assembly report summarised the issue as follows:
It is deeply uncomfortable for the Church, as a caring organisation concerned about climate justice, to continue to invest in something which causes the very harm it seeks to alleviate.
While we have profited from oil and gas exploration in the past, we now understand that financing the future exploration and production will take us away from fulfilling the Paris Agreement and delay the transition to a low carbon economy.
Church of Scotland general assembly. Rowan Gard
Yet the approximately 1,000 commissioners attending the General Assembly Hall on the city’s Mound, next to Edinburgh Castle, narrowly disagreed: 47% in favour and 53% against. Coming from a nation which already gets most of its electricity from renewable sources, and whose government has indicated the end is in sight for fossil fuel vehicles on the roads, it was undeniably a disappointment.
Representatives were persuaded that it was better to stay invested and seek to influence better behaviour than to pull out altogether. Reverend Jenny Adams, who had brought the motion in the first place, argued that all the evidence suggests oil and gas companies have little intention of changing quickly enough to satisfy the Paris agreement. She said:
There is a need for climate emissions to peak by 2020 and if we just keep talking, too much time passes and change is not coming fast enough.
She is surely right about this. There may be traditional wisdom in engaging with fellow shareholders and board members on matters pertaining to large companies, but the church’s decision looks naïve in relation to this sector.
To give just one example, consider that approximately 94% of shareholders of the oil giant Royal Dutch Shell voted last year and again this year to reject emission targets that would comply with the Paris climate accord, as it was deemed “not in the best interest of the company”. How do you persuade a bloc like that to change its mind?
Amen corner
While the Church of Scotland’s decision to sidestep divestment may have been a setback to the movement, there have been recent successes, too. The Church of Ireland committed to divest its fossil fuel assets earlier in May, while an international coalition of Catholic institutions, including the Scottish Catholic International Aid Fund, pledged in April to divest investments totalling £6.6 billion.
The movement speaks. Rowan Gard
Municipal administrations including New York and Paris are also divesting from fossil fuels and shifting their investments towards renewable energy sources – evidence that the global divestment is making an impact on public policy.
This certainly seems prudent, as newly published research suggests that the “carbon bubble” could “burst” in the next two decades as demand for fossil fuel energy falls despite population increases and burgeoning global economic growth.
The study projects that the global fossil energy demand will drop by as much as 40% by 2050. If that comes to fruition, it would mean containing global warming levels to 1.5 °C, which is the aspirational goal of the Paris climate accord.
That would be great news for environmentalists, most especially for those living on the front lines of climate change such as in the Pacific, less so for investors in fossil fuel businesses – Presbyterian or otherwise. It’s a strong signal that this global divestment movement may still be a long way from its peak.
173 Comments on "How $6 Trillion of Fossil Fuel Investments Got Dumped Thanks to Green Campaigners"
Simon on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 7:27 am
I think the same charge levelled against Cloggie, could also be levelled against Antius.
Effectively the whole of the EU has interconnectors running between the various national grids, so by antius’ logic, we are either all renewable or no-one is.
This is an un-constrained model.
However the reality is that electricity is delivered in a constrained manner, and this is notoriously difficult to model, so people don’t really talk about it.
Cloggie on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 7:35 am
@Antius – A pumped storage station is essentially a whole extra power station, a power station that actually consumes electricity rather than produces it.
You make it sound more than it is, “power station”. Here is a picture of a 130 MW hydro turbine/pump, I made during a holiday in Switzerland, a few years ago:
https://deepresource.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/pump.png
Location here:
https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2012/11/25/mattmark-hydro-power-plant/
Don’t tell me Scotland can’t afford an array of 30 of those, or regardless who many are required.
Here the Scottish government energy strategy is laid out:
http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2017/12/5661/5
They are in line with the EU in that they want to have a renewable energy system by 2050. As a consequence they aim for 100% e-vehicles. Storage of electricity in car batteries is an integral tool for demand management.
Scotland already has 2 PHS: Cruachan and Foyers, for short term storage.
For seasonal storage they are aiming at electrolysers for hydrogen production. Other possibility: energy storage solution for the Shetland Tidal Array.
You won’t like this: “offshore wind is now substantially cheaper than new nuclear electricity generation.”
Look Antius, I admire your tenacity with which you fight a rearguard fight, but in the eyes of too many it doesn’t make sense to phase out CO2-poison, only to replace it with plutonium poison.
MASTERMIND on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 7:45 am
Clogg
Why do you censor any comments on your cheap as fuck blog? Do you like to burn books on the weekend as well? You scum of society..
Davy on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 8:26 am
“Look Antius, I admire your tenacity with which you fight a rearguard fight, but in the eyes of too many it doesn’t make sense to phase out CO2-poison, only to replace it with plutonium poison.”
Look neder, Antius is merely calling into question your bogus agenda of 100% renewables as a certainty of a happy ending you constantly proselytize. Something our preach offering little pain. It’s all good with neder. You act like the party can continue. You act like the physics are figured out. You are just getting started. We are calling into question the inconsistencies of your well-crafted and packaged agenda. These things should always be called into question when survival itself rest on proper wisdom. We see these things all the time today and it is called propaganda. This is what you are doing because your deeper motivation is the white European race and your desire for a PBM empire. This them makes the importance of a renewable future pressured beyond fact. It must happen to save the white European race so you alter reality accordingly. Antius said nothing about NUK power in his discussion. He has valid arguments for NUK power. I don’t agree with all of them but in this conversation he did not push them. Quit attacking him for what he did not say.
Cloggie on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 8:41 am
You can call anything into question, but at some point you need to decide, act and implement. With regards to energy that point has long been reached. My “bogus agenda” is shared by all European governments and backed by EU scientific communities and overwhelmingly by the European public.
Btw: I do not personally attack Antius, very much unlike you. He is one of the top minds here and we’re pretty much aligned in the despair regarding how our societies are developing and we have the same judgment as to why it is happening.
But on energy we disagree. So be it.
Simon on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 9:08 am
CLoggie, I think Dave is saying that there is a link between your energy views and your political leanings.
As far as energy goes, I think you and Dave are closer than you think, you cite the positive, him the negative. The truth (I hope) is somewhere in-between, in that the collapse is happening right now, and will continue without a rapid descent, however our lifestyles will have to change, no cars, self driving for the middle class, bikes for the rest. Essentially think 1890’s replacing the horse with electrical vehicles, so only the wealthy or businesses have them.
Does that view satisfy you both ?
GregT on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 9:13 am
” I have no illusion I will have to work until I die.”
After Dad passes, ask Mom to sell the private jet. That should keep you going for a couple of years Davy.
Antius on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 9:15 am
Cloggie wrote: “Don’t tell me Scotland can’t afford an array of 30 of those, or regardless who many are required.”
You don’t seem to appreciate the irony of attempting to solve the economic problems caused by the rising cost of fossil fuels, by spending even more money trying to overcome the intermittency problems of even lower grade energy sources. You advocate a transition from stored fuels with increasing entropy, to another set of energy sources with even higher entropy. ‘If only we spend even more money on the things needed to overcome the problems, everything will be alright…’
Scotland right now is subsidised by the rest of the UK, which is itself practically bankrupt. When you say ‘afford’ exactly whose money are you talking about? Is it technically feasible that these pumped storage plants could be built within the next decade? Yes. Will the government actually have the resources to do it at a time when they can barely afford basic services? More doubtful. How sensible is it to assume that these plans will reach fruition, given all that these people have promised and failed to deliver in the past? Would it actually help anyone, given all the affordability problems that they actually have, when they finally reach that holy grail of 100% renewable energy?
“Here the Scottish government energy strategy is laid out:
http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2017/12/5661/5
They are in line with the EU in that they want to have a renewable energy system by 2050.”
The various tendrils of the UK government are famous for producing impressive looking strategies for just about everything. The Scottish branch is no exception. These people are expert talkers and bullshitters; legends in their own minds. Their expertise is public relations and the manipulation of information; they have practically zero understanding of real world technical problems. They were producing grandiose strategies talking about energy transitions in the late 1990s; I read them and didn’t quite believe them even in my late teens when I was looking for a project for a mechanical engineering degree. Much of the crap they wrote then could actually be copied and pasted into the strategy documents that they still issue almost 20 years later. Their stuff doesn’t even make particularly good arse paper.
Meanwhile, in the real world, none of the nonsense they promised 20 years ago has actually come to pass. We are not using hydrogen energy storage; we have no more pumped storage plants now than 20 years ago; electric vehicles are still expensive toys; none of us use combined heat and power micro-turbines; wave power and tidal stream power are still technological curiosities. No one could afford this stuff and for all its strategizing and bluster, the UK government was not prepared to invest what would have been necessary to make it happen, nor did it really have the physical tools needed to turn its dreams into reality. Back in the heady days of the 1980s when they still owned and controlled a lot of industry, they might have stood a better chance.
What actually happened between 1998 and 2018 was energy prices ballooned and almost everyone got poorer. The real energy transition has been the continuing long-term increase in the use of natural gas. Overall energy use has declined as industry has folded and real personal wealth outside of the lucky 10% has declined along with it. The wealth inequalities of society have increased and we still live in an economy dominated by fossil fuels, with an increase in wind energy doing nothing more than reduce the fuel bills at gas-turbine power plants at the expense of much higher capital cost payments. In the meantime, spare grid capacity has declined; baseload coal power plants have been closed by the EU (and we cannot afford to replace them); we face a race against time to replace ageing nuclear power plants to shore up baseload generation, only to find that we no longer have the expertise or infrastructure to do so, having let our own nuclear industry go to the wall. With the decline of North Sea gas, we have never been in a worse position when it comes to energy security.
These people have been screwing up UK energy security for the past 30 years. Why would anyone in their right mind expect the same people to turn things around with more of the same idealistic nonsense in the next 5 years?
“Offshore wind is now substantially cheaper than new nuclear electricity generation.”
Says’ who? Building a new nuclear power plant is very difficult anywhere in the western world now. No one has built one in over 20 years. All of the people involved in building the last generation have now retired. None of the supply lines really exist and there are close to zero scale economies. Couple that with regulatory regimes that stretch build times to a decade or more and it doesn’t surprise me that trying to build a new one is expensive. We face a long up-hill struggle getting this industry back on its feet, but none of the problems stem from the technology itself; more from our absolute stupidity in allowing the industry to atrophy, whilst western country’s slurped the short-term happy juice of cheap natural gas and produced fantasy world renewable energy strategies. In the 1980s and early 90s, the French demonstrated just how successful a nuclear build programme could be at producing low-cost baseload electricity.
Nuclear power will not in itself change the fundamental contradiction we live in; attempting to run a perpetual growth machine on a finite planet. Even a sudden transition to very cheap electricity would only mean that we end up facing other problems later on. But it does offer a respite from the short term problem of fossil fuel depletion.
Consider what a nuclear reactor actually does: It produces over 3000MW of heat constantly, in a volume about the same as an average town house. Coupled to a steam generation plant, it is the most compact energy source humans have yet devised. A plant big enough to power a city of 2million, could actually fit within a single modest sized building. Once a year, it gets refuelled with fuel that is so cheap that it is practically free. It’s fission product waste masses about 1tonne per year after reprocessing. No other system offers that sort of performance. Most of the huge costs associated with it, basically stem from the fact that people are frightened of it. No matter how good something really is, it will always be possible to ruin it.
JuanP on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 9:29 am
MM “Why do you censor any comments on your cheap as fuck blog? Do you like to burn books on the weekend as well? You scum of society..”
Delusional Davy and Picomind share many symptoms. I don’t want to accept that Davy systematically uses sock puppets because that is just so insane. The other day someone signed in as “Hello” a few times that I think was the exceptionalist. Now I am starting to accept the fact that maybe Delusional Davy is actually so insane that he uses sock puppets regularly. This human predicament is completely hopeless! LOL!
Cloggie on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 9:30 am
Antius, I admit I have no insight in Scottish finances. But the picture you are painting that basically nothing is happening in Scotland, that doesn’t ring a bell. I find this impressive:
https://goo.gl/images/fozwBe
@Simon, I think that picture you are painting is too pessimistic, at least for Europe. No return to 1890. The ride-sharing, autonomous public vehicle will be for most, replacing the privately owned car. “Bus on demand”.
Davy on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 9:35 am
“After Dad passes, ask Mom to sell the private jet. That should keep you going for a couple of years Davy.”
Gregster. My point which you could give a shit about because you are a serial stalker and pricker, is society will be poor by then including my family. This does not bode well for you because you do nothing but lay around on your nuts while the doctor wife pays the bills. You better hope she does not kick you out of the house on your lazy ass.
Davy on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 9:40 am
juan is just running cover for his gay fantasy sock bony joe. If I had time I would google bars in south Florida to see where juan waters at. Juan, is another serial stalker and pricker when his personality changes. I imagine he has no projects now not because of the season but because of his current bad behavior. Who would want to work with a loud mouth prick anyway?
GregT on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 9:42 am
“This human predicament is completely hopeless!”
And that would be the sad reality of the matter.
The human race is in overshoot of it’s environmental carrying capacity. No amount of alt energy will end this predicament, it will only exacerbate it. We are now changing the chemical make up of the atmosphere and the oceans, we face food scarcity, water scarcity, and climatic instability, likely even a catastrophic runaway greenhouse event.
Sorry guys, but the real problem isn’t how to maintain some semblance of BAU for 7.6 billion people, the real problem is how to transition to a planet with far fewer people living in harmony with the natural environment, because if we don’t, our species faces extinction.
GregT on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 9:50 am
“Gregster. My point which you could give a shit about because you are a serial stalker and pricker, is society will be poor by then including my family.”
Sell grandpa’s estate farm, the private jet, liquidate the ‘defence’ contractor business, build a concrete wall around the compound in the Bahamas, and hire locals to produce food and man the machine gun turrets.
No need to work until you die Davy.
MASTERMIND on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 10:02 am
Greg
Trent Reznor: ‘You’re seeing the fall of America in real time’
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2018/jun/21/trent-reznor-nine-inch-nails-youre-seeing-the-fall-of-america
Davy on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 10:17 am
Grehggie lies. I am not going to waste time setting them right. You see grehggie is also a serial liar when he
stalks and pricks. He then wants to play the game of pumping you for information he can then use later on you. He wants you to refute his lies with real information that he will twist later. Everything I have said about myself is here on this board. Any of you can google this. It is true and honest. I have Simon to attest to this. We have talked off board about many things. He is truely a board asset and he lives a wonderful real green life. Grehggie on the other hand is a truely disgusting board member and has perpetuated bad behavior. He is not real green and he spreads lies and half truths.
GregT on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 10:22 am
“He then wants to play the game of pumping you for information he can then use later on you.”
You have provided all of that information voluntarily Davy, nobody has ‘pumped’ you for it.
GregT on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 10:29 am
“He is not real green and he spreads lies and half truths.”
There are very few ‘real green’ people left on this planet Davy, only the ‘savages’ that the Europeans didn’t manage to convert, or eradicate.
MASTERMIND on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 10:29 am
Davy
Greg lies like there’s no tomw..Do you realize you are arguing with someone who thinks the government is spying on him through his cell phone? Just think about that..If someone went to the authorities and showed them what greg was saying here..they would likely throw him in the psych ward..
Davy on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 10:39 am
Defense contractor?? Where did that come from. That is a new lie grehggie. If that were true give me privately held defense contractors in Missouri. Admit you are a serial liar.
Davy on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 10:42 am
Well you are definitely not one with your high income lifestyle with a boat, a plane, rv, and other shit . The most repugnant thing about you is you are the richest bastard here whining about social justice. What’s up with that fraudulent behavior???
GregT on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 10:57 am
“The most repugnant thing about you is you are the richest bastard here whining about social justice.”
I have never stepped foot on a private jet Davy, as a matter of fact, I have never even been close to one, and who was talking about social justice? I was merely calling you out on your assertion that you will need to work until you die.
GregT on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 10:58 am
“Do you realize you are arguing with someone who thinks the government is spying on him through his cell phone?”
You keep believing what you like MM. Whatever makes you feel more comfortable.
Davy on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 11:14 am
Grehggie, you have been in a jet and as a private pilot who does aerobatics you likely own a very expensive plane. I was a private pilot in the 90’s with a Cessna 150. Price those out. Acrobatic planes are high dollar. The private jet is not mine grehgster. I have not gone to the Bahamas in 3 years. You are a serial serial stalking and pricking liar who targets Americans exclusively. You live in one of the richest parts of the world setting pretty with the trophy life. If it is so good why are you such a mentally ill individual. Has affluence ruined your life?
GregT on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 11:22 am
“Well you are definitely not one with your high income lifestyle with a boat, a plane, rv, and other shit.”
Boat: $15,000 CAD
Plane: sold for $14,000 CAD
RV: $8,000 CAD
Other shit?: Priceless
Private Jet: $3,000,000 to $90,000,000 U.S.
Annual costs: $700,000 to $4,000,000 per year.
Return trip from LA to Austin: $31,000 U.S.
Completely different reality Davy.
https://www.cnbc.com/2013/10/11/when-should-you-buy-a-jet-charter-plane-private-cost-and-prices.html
MASTERMIND on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 11:51 am
Greg
You better cover up the camera on your computer.
The deep state might want to watch you fucking your fat hairy wife on the sofa..
LMFAO!
Antius on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 11:52 am
“But the picture you are painting that basically nothing is happening in Scotland, that doesn’t ring a bell.”
I am not saying that nothing is happening. Large amounts of wind generation is being constructed in Scotland and I would expect to see wind based electricity generation increase. But it is unlikely to lead to the sort of energy autarky you envisage, at least not at a cost that anyone living there can afford. At present, about half of the power generated in Scotland is produced using nuclear reactors and an even greater portion of the power they actually consume. Within a decade, it will all be gone. It will be difficult to replace it with wind power even in terms of absolute generation. Producing the required pumped storage plants in that time essentially means producing as much hydro capacity as the nuclear capacity they have lost, all inside a decade. It is a very tall order indeed and it will cost a lot of money. Unfortunately, the UK is skint and Scotland is one of the less affluent parts of it. The reality is, with the closure of the AGR fleet, cross-border electricity flows will increase substantially and so will natural gas used for electricity production.
The problem you face with attempting to develop an entirely renewable energy base stems from the laws of physics, specifically the second law of thermodynamics. You are replacing a concentrated stored energy source that you can unleash on demand, with a low energy density, intermittent one, that generates whenever the wind gods please. There were storage losses with fossil fuels too, but Mother Nature paid them long before we existed, so we don’t pick up the tab. You have four options when it comes to managing the intermittency problem:
(1) Build back-up fossil fuel plants that generate when the wind does not. This is the option that most countries have taken up to now. It is relatively affordable because gas turbine plants are cheap to build, but expensive to run, so wind or solar power reduces the fuel bill, which partly pays for their own capital and operating costs. Another plus side is that there are no storage losses, so little if any energy is wasted. The downside is that the intermittent renewables are limited to 30-40% of total power generated. Total costs are still higher than the gas turbine plant running on its own, because the wind/solar infrastructure are more expensive than the fuel they save. Basically you need two power stations to produce the output of just one, although the renewable segment has been getting cheaper.
Total cost is maybe 1.5-2 times that of the fossil power station alone.
(2) Build energy storage plants. This means building another power station, that consumes intermittent electricity as fuel, stores the energy and produces electrical power whose output can be controlled. This is clearly more expensive than option 1 on a unit power basis, because you need extra renewable energy to cover the storage losses, in addition to what would have been needed on a net energy basis before storage. So you need at least two and a half power stations to produce the output of one and because the energy store is likely large, the storage power station will be considerably more expensive than a regular fossil fuel power station. The storage plant must have enough storage capacity to cover the longest foreseeable lull in renewable energy output; else you must accept occasional blackouts or pay for long-term backup powered by some sort of stored (presumably non-fossil) fuel. Some renewable energy can be stored as heat or cold for end use applications, which may make the situation a little easier, but requires increased complexity at the consumer end.
Total costs is upwards of 2-3 times the cost of a fossil fuel power plant producing the same amount of power, depending upon the technology used.
(3) We use renewable energy when it is available and curtail our use when it is not. This is the traditional approach. It is cheaper than either of the others in terms of delivered energy, maybe even cheaper than electricity delivered by the fossil fuel plant. But it requires that society adapt its demand to when energy is supplied. In some cases involving stored heat, this is relatively simple. In other cases it raises major difficulties. Labour costs must be paid whether people are working or not; capital costs are a function of time, not operation.
How much that will cost in financial terms is anyone’s guess.
(4) Some hybrid combination of the above approaches.
Collectively, these options can deliver a system that will function in principle just well as a fossil or nuclear powered system. But it will always be substantially more expensive than either, because you need extra infrastructure (and energy) due to the intermittency problem. The same problem along with the low energy density of wind and solar ensures that embodied energy and EROI are substantially lower. The problem is that our economy is suffering because the energy returns (EROI) of fossil fuels are declining. Replacing it with another system that offers even lower energy returns cannot help that problem, even if it does make some level of energy consumption more sustainable in the long term.
Another problem that we face if we need to rely on such a system for indefinite power generation is declining ore availability. Coal, oil and gas aren’t the only fossil energy sources we use. Concentrated ores are a form of stored energy as well, one that we have been drawing down. This is the other half of our depletion problem. A system that provides a greater drain on those resources whilst at the same time delivering poorer energy returns on embodied energy at any resource availability; faces a double sustainability problem.
The poorer EROI ultimately means lower net energy consumption and consequently lower incomes. It is a situation that worsens with time as supporting ore bodies are progressively depleted.
GregT on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 11:56 am
FBI director says he covers his webcam and shares other security recommendations
http://www.businessinsider.com/fbi-director-covers-webcam-2016-9
Davy on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 12:06 pm
Grehggie, not my jet so drop the comparison. Compare your life and mine. I left the affluent life. You doubled down on it. Quit the sliminess. You live worlds apart from me in the poor Ozarks of Missouri. Of course you point this out depending on the attack de jure. You live in BC one of the wealthiest places on the planet. You have done the research for your attacks on my poor county i live in. You routinely cut down Central MO. Comparing the two shows huge wealth differences. But of course with the attack de jure today it is make Davy look like he owns and operates a private jet. Tomorrow I will be a poor goat farmer. These are the nastiness that comes from you and your groupie gang. You are liars and you have repugnant personalities.
GregT on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 12:13 pm
Cut the bullshit Davy. Your assertion that you will ‘need to work’ until you die is BS. You already admitted yesterday that your family is not going to leave you high and dry.
“I left the affluent life. You doubled down on it. ”
I never lived the affluent life Davy, and I have nothing to fall back on other than the fruits of my own labour.
Antius on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 12:20 pm
“Cut the bullshit Davy. Your assertion that you will ‘need to work’ until you die is BS. You already admitted yesterday that your family is not going to leave you high and dry.”
Isn’t that exactly what most of humanity did do until recently? Given the decline in living standards that people have already suffered since 2008, what makes you think that anyone will be able to retire in another 10 years? Debt levels are soaring and there is no improvement in sight. A day of reckoning is fast approaching. It will be uglier than anything anyone in developed countries has seen in living memory.
Davy on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 12:31 pm
Liar grehggie. You lived affluence and are living it. You have the doctor wife and made a killing off a Vancouver house sale. Greggie, dumbas, I am talking the end of the status quo. Something we both discuss. This is a future without wealthy people like you and my family. I made a decision to live differently. They respect that. You are not living differently. You are actually living more decadent nestled up in your hideaway far away from troubles doing absolutely nothing but stalking and pricking people on the Internet. You and your gang hate me because without me here you would own the narrative and be an extremist magnet you so desperately want to be.
GregT on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 12:47 pm
” Debt levels are soaring and there is no improvement in sight. A day of reckoning is fast approaching. It will be uglier than anything anyone in developed countries has seen in living memory.”
Completely agree, yet while the vast majority are being thrown under the bus, the uber wealthy jet setters continue to amass more and more of the ‘wealth’.
GregT on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 12:53 pm
“This is a future without wealthy people like you and my family.”
Myself, and your family Davy, live in completely different realities. Selling a home for 1M means jack shit when the other homes on the market cost just as much, and my wife makes annually what an entry level private jet costs to operate for less than two months.
Watermelons to raisins Davy.
“You are not living differently. You are actually living more decadent nestled up in your hideaway far away from troubles doing absolutely nothing but stalking and pricking people on the Internet. ”
More of your usual delusional bullshit Davy.
Davy on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 1:04 pm
Whining and excuses from wealthy Grehggie. Change your life now to prepare. You act like you did but you really didn’t. You are a rich west coast Canadian snob that lives better than most of the world. Quit being a hypocrite and get help for your serial stalking and pricking obsession. You can’t have it both ways grehggie as much as you pretend you can.
JuanP on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 1:19 pm
Delusional Davy “Grehggie lies. I am not going to waste time setting them right. You see grehggie is also a serial liar when he
stalks and pricks. He then wants to play the game of pumping you for information he can then use later on you. He wants you to refute his lies with real information that he will twist later. Everything I have said about myself is here on this board. Any of you can google this. It is true and honest. I have Simon to attest to this. We have talked off board about many things. He is truely a board asset and he lives a wonderful real green life. Grehggie on the other hand is a truely disgusting board member and has perpetuated bad behavior. He is not real green and he spreads lies and half truths.”
I will let the exceptionalist’s words stand on their own lack of merit! LOL!
Davy on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 1:41 pm
Greggie Juan (bony Juan) one liners show just how intellectually empty and stupid you are. You both are friends because you both exhibit the same personality disorders. You are both playboy snobs. Run along and go play on the beach.
Anonymouse1 on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 1:48 pm
So…..now the exceptionalturd has transformed greg and juan into ‘playboy snobs’. Imagine that, which is exactly what he\it likes to do, imagine things.
What a dumbass. Why dont you go outside and do some of that ‘farming’ you occasionally claim you engage in, or better yet, just go outside and stay there.
Davy on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 1:56 pm
Where the hell is 3rd world, then I will have dealt with every one of the dumbass groupie gang today Anononmouse1 is their mascot. I call him the weasel because he is little and slithers around like a rodent. He is the most harmless. He rarely comments on topic. He usually does a follow up pricking others have started. Wow, if this is Canada’s youth then that country has shit for a future.
Davy on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 1:58 pm
I guess 3rd world is in hiding because of the paranoia I put two and two together and determined the small town he is in. He is likely worried the police state will come find him.
MASTERMIND on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 2:05 pm
Davy said
You both are friends because you both exhibit the same personality disorders. You are both playboy snobs. Run along and go play on the beach.
LMFAO! They are going to be so triggered!
GregT on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 2:12 pm
“I guess 3rd world is in hiding because of the paranoia I put two and two together and determined the small town he is in.”
It’s currently 3:00 am in Manilla Davy, surely even someone of your limited capacity should be able to figure out that Makati1 is more than likely sleeping.
GregT on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 2:22 pm
“LMFAO! They are going to be so triggered”
Somebody else’s paranoid delusions are hardly something to get ‘triggered’ over MM. Sympathetic would better a much better word.
Davy on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 2:40 pm
greggie juan, you got triggered. take it like a man and quit being a pussy.
GregT on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 2:50 pm
Well, things certainly do appear to be getting more than a little bit confusing. Tell everyone Davy, in your mind, which forum member is ‘greggie juan’?
Cloggie on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 2:51 pm
“greggie juan, you got triggered. take it like a man and quit being a pussy.”
peakoil.com, a sort of facebook for collapseniks.
Davy on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 2:57 pm
greggie, how about just saying something. Enough of the noise because your so bored with your lonely affluent life. Almost your entire groupie gang came out to play and made noise today. This is an intellectual forum don’t you think it is time to say something. You are such a obsessive prick and your group, including you nedernazi, are anti-intellectual thugs.
GregT on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 3:10 pm
“greggie, how about just saying something. ”
I already did, but it obviously didn’t go over too well.
” I have no illusion I will have to work until I die.”
After Dad passes, ask Mom to sell the private jet. That should keep you going for at least a couple of years. Or move to one of your retreats. I’m sure that either Italy or the Bahamas will work quite nicely.
Davy on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 3:15 pm
Grehggie, that is pricking. You could give a shot about the meaning behind my comment. I didn’t start anything by that. You chose to fuck with me unprovoked. We can do this all day. You are wasting space for quality comments but being a rich snob I can see how you don’t notice how selfish your behavior is.
GregT on Thu, 21st Jun 2018 3:23 pm
“Grehggie, that is pricking.”
No it is not Davy. Stop playing the poor spoiled little uber wealthy boy.