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Some reflections on the Twilight of the Oil Age (Part II)
by Louis Arnoux
Part 2 – Enquiring into the appropriateness of the question
Let’s acknowledge it, the situation we are in, as depicted summarily in Part 1, is complex. As many commentators like to state, there is still plenty of oil, coal, and gas left “in the ground”. Since 2014, debates have been raging, concerning the assumed “oil glut”, concerning how low oil prices may go down, how high prices may rebound as demand possibly picks up and the “glut” vanishes, and, in the face of all this, what may or may not happen regarding “renewables”. However, in my view, the situation is not impossible to analyse rigorously, away from what may appear as common sense but that may not withstand scrutiny. For example, Part 1 data have indicated,that most of what’s left in terms of fossil fuels is likely to stay where it is, underground, unless having access to difficult to agree upon resource management policies, simply because this is what thermodynamics dictates.
We can now venture a little bit further if we keep firmly in mind that the globalised industrial world (GIW), and by extension all of us, do not “live” on fossil resources but on net energy delivered by the global energy system; and if we also keep in mind that, in this matter, oil-derived transport fuels are the key since, without them, none of the other fossil and nuclear resources can be mobilised and the GIW itself can’t function.
In my experience, most often, when faced with such a broad spectrum of conflicting views, especially involving matters pertaining to physics and the social sciences, the lack of agreement is indicative that the core questions are not well formulated. Physicist David Bohm liked to stress: “In scientific enquiries, a crucial step is to ask the right question. Indeed each question contains presuppositions, largely implicit. If these presuppositions are wrong or confused, the question itself is wrong, in the sense that to try to answer it has no meaning. One has thus to enquire into the appropriateness of the question.”
Here it is important, in terms of system analysis, to differentiate between the global energy industry (say, GEI) and the GIW. The GEI bears the brunt of thermodynamics directly, and within the GEI, the oil industry (OI) is key since, as seen in Part 1, it is the first to reach the thermodynamics limit of resource extraction and, since it conditions the viability of the GEI’s other components – in their present state and within the remaining timeframe, they can’t survive the OI’s eventual collapse. On the other hand, the GIW is impacted by thermodynamic decline with a lag, in the main because it is buffered by debt – so that by the time the impact of the thermodynamic collapse of the OI becomes undeniable it’s too late to do much about it.
At the micro level, debt can be “good” – e.g. a company borrows to expand and then reimburses its debt, etc… At the macro level, it can be, and has now become, lethal, as the global debt can no longer be reimbursed (I estimate the energy equivalent of current global debt, from states, businesses, and households to be in the order of some 10,700EJ, while current world energy use is in the order of 554EJ; it is no longer doable to “mind the gap”).
Crude oil prices are dropping to the floor
Figure 4 – The radar signal for an Oil Pearl Harbor
In brief, the GIW has been living on ever growing total debt since around the time net energy from oil per head peaked in the early 1970s. The 2007-08 crisis was a warning shot. Since 2012, we have entered the last stage of this sad saga – when the OI began to use more energy (one should talk in fact of exergy) within its own productions chains than what it delivers to the GIW. From this point onwards retrieving the present financial fiat system is no longer doable.
This 2012 point marked a radical shift in price drivers.[1] Figure 4 combines the analyses of TGH (The Hills Group) and mine. In late 2014 I saw the beginning of the oil price crash as a signal of a radar screen. Being well aware that EROIs for oil and gas combined had already passed below the minimum threshold of 10:1, I understood that this crash was different from previous ones: prices were on their way right down to the floor. I then realised whatTGH had anticipated last month, that their analysis was robust and was being corroborated by the market there and then.
Until 2012, the determining price driver was the total energy cost incurred by the OI. Until then the GIW could more or less happily sustain the translation of these costs into high oil prices, around or above $100/bbl. This is no longer the case. Since 2012, the determining oil price driver is what the GIW can afford to pay in order to still be able to generate residual GDP growth (on borrowed time) under the sway of a Red Queen that is running out of thermodynamic “breath”. I call the process we are in an “Oil Pearl Harbour”, taking place in a kind of eerie slow motion. This is no longer retrievable. Within roughly ten years the oil industry as we know it will have disintegrated. The GIW is presently defenceless in the face of this threat.
The Oil Fizzle Dragon-King
Figure 5 – The “Energy Hand”
To illustrate how the GEI works I often compare its energy flows to the five fingers of the one hand: all are necessary and all are linked (Figure 5). Under the Red Queen, the GEI is progressively loosing its “knuckles” one by one like a kind of unseen leprosy – unseen yet because of the debt “veil” that hides the progressive losses and more fundamentally because of what I refer to at the bottom of Figure 5, namely were are in what I call Oil Fizzle Dragon-King.
A Dragon-King (DK) is a statistical concept developed by Didier Sornette of the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, Zurich, and a few others to differentiate high probability and high impact processes and events from Black Swans, i.e. events that are of low probability and high impact. I call it the Oil Fizzle because what is triggering it is the very rapid fizzling out of net energy per barrel. It is a DK, i.e. a high probability, high impact unexpected process, purely because almost none of the decision-making elites is familiar with the thermodynamics of complex systems operating far from equilibrium; nor are they familiar with the actual social workings of the societies they live in. Researchers have been warning about the high likelihood of something like this at least since the works of the Meadows in the early 1970s.[2]
The Oil Fizzle DK is the result of the interaction between this net energy fizzling out, climate change, debt and the full spectrum of ecological and social issues that have been mounting since the early 1970s – as I noted on Figure 1, the Oil Fizzle DK is in the process of whipping up a “Perfect Storm” strong enough to bring the GIW to its knees. The Oil Pearl Harbour marks the Oil Fizzle DK getting into full swing.
To explain this further, with reference to Figure 5, oil represents some 33% of global primary energy use (BP data). Fossil fuels represented some 86% of total primary energy in 2014. However, coal, oil, and gas are not like three boxes neatly set side by side from which energy is supplied magically, as most economists would have it.
In the real world (i.e. outside the world economists live in), energy supply chains form networks, rather complex ones. For example, it takes electricity to produce many products derived from oil, coal, and gas, while electricity is generated substantially from coal and gas, and so on. More to the point, as noted earlier, because 94% of all transport is oil-based oil, stands at the root of the entire, complex, globalised set of energy networks. Coal mining, transport, processing, and use depend substantially on oil-derived transport fuels; ditto for gas.[3] The same applies to nuclear plants. So the thermodynamic collapse of the oil industry, that is now underway, is likely to be completed within some 10 years, is in the process of triggering a falling domino effect (aka an avalanche, or in systemic terms, a self-organising criticality, a SOC).
Presently, and for the foreseeable future do not have substitutes for oil derived transport fuels that can be deployed within the required time frame and that would be affordable to the GIW. In other words, the GIW is falling into a thermodynamic trap, right now. As B. W. Hill recently noted, “The world is now spending $2.3 trillion per year more to produce oil than what is received when it is sold. The world is now losing a great deal of money to maintain its dependence on oil.”
The Tooth Fairy Syndrome
To come back to David Bohm’s “question about the question”, in my view, we are in this situation fundamentally because of what I call the “Tooth Fairy Syndrome”, after a pointed remark by B.W. Hill in an Internet debate early last year: “It is interesting that not one analyst has yet come to the very obvious conclusion that it requires oil to produce oil. Perhaps they think it is delivered by the Tooth Fairy?” This remark vividly characterised for me the prevalence of a fair amount of magical thinking at the heart of decision-making within both the GEI and the GIW, aka economics as a perpetual motion machine fantasy. Unquestioned delusional beliefs lead to wrong conclusions.
This is not new. Here are a few words of explanation. In 1981, I met US anthropologist Laura Nader at the Australia New Zealand Association of the Advancement of Science (ANZAAS) Congress held that year at University of Queensland in Brisbane. We were both guest speakers at seminars focusing on Energy and Equity, and in particular on how societies actually deal with energy matters, energy crises and decide about courses of action. The title of her paper was “Energy and Equity, Magic, Science, and Religion Revisited”.
In recent years, Nader had become part of US bodies overseeing responses to the first and second oil shocks and the US nuclear energy industry (she was a member of the National Academy of Science’s Committee on Nuclear and Alternative Energy Systems, CONAES). As an anthropologist, she was initially taken aback by what she observed and proceeded to apply her anthropological skills to try and understand the weird “tribes” she had landed into. The title of her paper was a wink at Malinowski’s famous work on the Trobriands in 1925.
Malinowski had pointed out that: “There are no people, however primitive without religion or magic. Nor are there… any savage races [sic] lacking either in the scientific attitude or in science though this lack has been frequently attributed to them.”
Nader had observed that prevailing decision-making in the industrialised was world she was living in was also the outcome of a weird mix of “Magic, Science, and Religion” with magical and mythical, quasi religious, thinking predominating among people who were viewed and who viewed themselves as rational and making scientifically grounded decisions. At the time I was engaged in very similar research and had observed exactly the same kind of phenomena in my own Australasian fieldwork and reached similar conclusions.
In my observations, since the 1970s the prevalence of this syndrome has considerably worsened. This is what I seek to encapsulate as the Tooth Fairy Syndrome. With the Oil Peal harbour, the unquestioned sway of the Tooth Fairy is coming to an end. However, the imprint of Tooth Fairy thinking remains so strong that most discussions and analyses remain highly confused, even within scientific circles still taking economic notions for granted.
In the longer run, the end effect of the Oil Fizzle DK is likely to be an abrupt decline of GHG emissions. However, the danger I see is that meanwhile the GEI, and most notably the OI, is not going to just “curl up and die”. I think we are in a “die hard” situation. Since 2012, we are already seeing what I call a Big Mad Scramble (BMS) by a wide range of GEI actors that try to keep going while they still can, flying blind into the ground. The eventual outcome is hard to avoid with a GEI operating with only about 12% energy efficiency, i.e. some 88% wasteful current primary energy use. The GIW’s agony is likely to result in a big burst of GHG emissions while net energy fizzles out. The high danger is that the old quip will eventuate on a planetary scale: “the operation was successful but the patient died”… Hence my call for “enquiring into the appropriateness of the question” and for systemic thinking. We are in deep trouble. We can’t afford to get this wrong.
Next: Part 3 – Standing slightly past the edge of the cliff
Bio: Dr Louis Arnoux is a scientist, engineer, and entrepreneur committed to the development of sustainable ways of living and doing business. His profile is available on Google+ at: https://plus.google.com/u/0/115895160299982053493/about/p/pub
Cassandra’s legacy by Dr Louis Arnoux
82 Comments on "Some reflections on the Twilight of the Oil Age (Part II)"
JuanP on Sun, 17th Jul 2016 5:52 pm
Boat, Immigration plays a role, just like manufacturing outsourcing, Climate Change, resource depletion, environmental degradation, increasing economic inequality, and a number of other factors. Your belief that stopping immigration would solve all our problems is incomplete, IMO. I do want you to understand, though, that I agree with you completely that immigration aggravates the situation in the USA for the working class. But I look at the global big picture; the situation in this or that country is not particularly important to me. The way I see things we are all going down and nobody will be spared.
Apneaman on Sun, 17th Jul 2016 6:20 pm
Boat what exactly are you arguing? What does it matter that lower wages come, in part, from immigration and in part from moving jobs overseas and, in part, from passing legislation friendly to only the rich at the expense of working folks and ,in part, from old fashioned racketeering? All of it has lead to the quality of life of most Americans to deteriorate for the last 4 decades… And it’s the same group of cunts behind all of it. It’s like you are trying to fool yourself into a cartoon of reality version like Trump voters. Get rid of the illeagles and it will be 1955, white bread, leave it to beaver, suburbs, endless consumer goodies, cars, vacations, 3 kids and all on 1 income – no college needed. This simple minded cowardly thinking has happened so many time in the past, including a few times in the US, that only a fucking retard would fall for it again. Clever fucks like Trump prove how easy it is to manipulate a tribe by pushing their inherent xenophobic button. Direct all that anger and dissatisfaction and dump every last bit of it on one group with no real power – immigrants. Grow up for fucks sake. The entire system is corrupted and Joe six pack has been getting fucked by TPTB in more ways than a crack whore at a gang bang. It’s people like Trump who made the conditions for illegal immigrants possible and profited. The elite want them because it enriches them. Hey, I have those xenophobic, violent hate and racist buttons too and all the rest of them. It’s just that I understand what they are and refuse to let a group of assholes push them and use me to serve their ends. This is why I say it’s cowardly – the ones fucking the sheep over are the ones in charge and they will never give back anything without a bloody fight or unless they are wholly convinced their lives and power are in imminent danger, which is something 21st century fat spoilt cowards will not do. Easier to take it all out on minority groups that can’t fight back instead of taking on the real enemy – that might cost the ultimate price. Easier and more pleasing to think a tough talking DADDY will take care of everything with his simple minded medieval solutions. We saw the same type of thing at COP 21, liberal style – because they made a bunch of grand
emptypromises and statements and hailed it as a world saving moment it must be so. Like you can remake reality by simply cheering and yelling it into existence. I hope Trump wins, just to see the disappointment and so I can rub it in every retards face for 4 years or until collapse. No worries boat, everything the elite are doing? – Just Capitalism.bug on Sun, 17th Jul 2016 7:23 pm
Good post ape, I loathe trump, want him to win for same, such enjoyment
Boat on Sun, 17th Jul 2016 8:15 pm
ape,
Lol, I made the same arguments when Bush ran against Kerry. That’s when construction was first really affected and wages dropped fast. That was 20 million immigrants ago. You know shyt.
antaris on Sun, 17th Jul 2016 8:25 pm
Boat knows Shyt, as we are all immigrants.
Go Speed Racer on Sun, 17th Jul 2016 8:40 pm
I figure Trump will be the worst President in history. I want him to win cause Hillary is awful. Can you imagine all the reporters at the press session, having to address her as “President Bitch”.
Hillary is political-correctness gone insane, like putting Aunt Jemima on the $20 bill.
http://i.imgur.com/Tb7Kvh8.png
Now if the made the $20 bill look like this, I would be OK with it:
http://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/30/women-on-us-currency/t-swift.nocrop.w529.h244.jpg
Hillary will bring in all the ISIS immigrants from Krapistan. They will start driving trucks thru crowds at the fireworks show.
If you don’t want that, then don’t vote for it.
Apneaman on Sun, 17th Jul 2016 8:54 pm
bug, thanks and never forget that it’s all an illusion.
When you are born in this world, you are given a ticket to the Freak Show – George Carlin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkTeZLiNCoM
antaris on Sun, 17th Jul 2016 9:36 pm
Jackson looks good but a mean, angry looking Aunt looks wrong. A smiling, happy, nurturing Aunt would be fine.
Anonymous on Sun, 17th Jul 2016 10:36 pm
boat one of those mericants that still believe that ‘president’s’ actually rule the american empire?
Boat on Sun, 17th Jul 2016 10:46 pm
Anonymous,
There is a big difference between the two political parties in areas. The prez sets the agenda, has the veto and selects the supreme court nominees. Rule? No. Can he control opposing legislation. Almost always.
Apneaman on Sun, 17th Jul 2016 11:10 pm
Boat, you still don’t understand that the masters of the universe, the PTB, the elite, your owners, Captains of Industries and many shareholders want them there – making major bank. Comprehend? So, let us wander into fantasy land for a moment and pretend Trump wins and instigates a massive illegal removal plan. How many of them are there? 11 million (offical) – 34 million (Trump et al retards) is the span of estimates I’ve seen. Since you like and have previously professed belief in official numbers we’ll go with 11 million. First what would the financial costs be to deport 11 million people? A few billion or more? Think of the logistics – holy fuck. It would be like the mobilization for WWII. What about the political fall out at home and abroad? I know the illegals use public services and that costs, but they are also consumers and taxpayers (income, sales, and a long list of hidden taxes/fees), so what would be the consequences of their removal? What about all the businesses, big and small that employ them? Will they all still be in business if they have to pay native borns and legal residents the proper wages benefits and safe by the bookwork conditions? What kind of message will it send to the highly educated skilled foreigners who are contemplating migrating to the US? Even now not as many are coming and some are leaving. Gonna replace them with young Texans who go through that anti evolution anti science public education system? Yeah, I bet they’ll produce world class microbiologists who are evolution deniers – biblical biologly. Without all those STEM migrants the US economy dies because you are no longer capable of producing enough home grown STEM qualified people because you’re so dumb downed. That’s a little bit of the shyte I know and a few questions for ya. I eagerly await your enlightened response boaty.
The Self-Inflicted U.S. Brain Drain
Up to 1.5 million skilled workers are stuck in immigration limbo. Many give up and go home.
“The brain drain from this dysfunctional skilled-immigrant policy has begun. Some of the most thoughtful alarms have been raised by Vivek Wadhwa, the author of “The Immigrant Exodus: Why America Is Losing the Global Race to Capture Entrepreneurial Talent” (Wharton, 2012).
Mr. Wadhwa, who teaches at Duke and Stanford, is particularly worried about the so-called STEM disciplines—science, technology, engineering and mathematics. “Companies like Alibaba and Tencent are a warning signal that it is almost too late,” he tells me. “Either we get back to picking off the best and brightest STEM talent in the world, or someone else will.”
http://www.wsj.com/articles/michael-s-malone-the-self-inflicted-u-s-brain-drain-1413414239
“The number of illegal immigrants in the United States is “30 million, it could be 34 million.”
— Donald Trump on Friday, July 24th, 2015 in an interview on
MSNBC’s “Morning Joe.”
U.S. illegal immigrant population falls below 11 million, continuing nearly decade-long decline, report says
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/federal-eye/wp/2016/01/20/u-s-illegal-immigrant-population-falls-below-11-million-continuing-nearly-decade-long-decline-report-says/
We need to stop America’s brain drain
“This is a big problem for the U.S. because immigrants have founded 52 percent of Silicon Valley’s companies and created millions of American jobs. This won’t be the case in the future.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/on-innovations/we-need-to-stop-americas-brain-drain/2011/09/14/gIQAHOuJLL_story.html
From ditch diggers to physicians to world class scientists to tech geniuses. The migrants make as many or more contributions to make America work as anyone and without them it’s over in an instant. BTW, it’s been like that from the start – no migrants no empire. Funny, the similarities of what’s happening in america now to what happened to the great Islamic civilization. Once they were the great empire with the best science, culture, art, architecture, tolerant of others with many migrants and trade and exchanging ideas – all the good stuff. Then, just like today in merica it went to pieces because of infighting, corrupt elites and anti science anti intellectual intolerant religious fundamentalists who harnessed the muscle of lowbrow thinkers, like Trump supporters and tore it apart in the 13th century and the muslims have been mostly in the dark ages every since. Happened something like that to many empires. Same as it ever was.
Anonymous on Sun, 17th Jul 2016 11:24 pm
LOL, a true believer. There are NO political parties in the Jewnited Snakes. There is only the Perpetual War-Wall St.-Oil-Coal-Prison-GMO-CIA Party to vote for. That’s it. But they care enough to make an effort to convince all you sheeples that your ‘votes count’, or that the ‘president’ is the most powerful man on earth ROFL.
Brent on Mon, 18th Jul 2016 3:11 am
“From ditch diggers to physicians to world class scientists to tech geniuses. The migrants make as many or more contributions to make America work as anyone and without them it’s over in an instant. BTW, it’s been like that from the start – no migrants no empire. ”
Apneaman is hands down the number one empire apologist on this board, although he will deny it.
And that Islamic paradise Apneaman tries to sell is is an abolute myth:
https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Andalusian-Paradise-Christians-Medieval/dp/1610170954
But in a cynical sense I agree with him: if Trump would become president he could postpone the inevitable fall of the US empire with a couple of years and that would be a shame, where ethnic tensions are currently rising to a point the US can explode any minute now with all these cops killings. And than there is the South-China Sea… and the rise of the European Right that dispises commie USA… The head of the French CIA says that a civil war can break out any minute from now in France… tick-tock, tick-tock.
But hey, we loved the Osmond Brothers, we really did!
https://youtu.be/iXO7-aAzUO4
Brent on Mon, 18th Jul 2016 3:54 am
Forget about the peak oil syndrome, a country in a state of civil war doesn’t need no oil, just armed people marching through the woods like in 1776. Here is the Baton Rouge cop killer:
https://youtu.be/4L5I13Nai_U
At 3:00 he openly calls for violence, revolution and uprising.
He should be careful with what he wishes for because before he knows it he could be owning a country on North-American soil all of his own and his tribe. Just like in Africa.lol This poor chap doesn’t understand his rare black privilege, namely being a member of the black happy few who are actually blessed to live in a (still) white majority country. That could be over rather soon.
– In 1984 (Sarajevo winter olympics) nobody expected the country fall apart, yet a few years later it happened.
– In 1989 nobody expected the USSR to fall apart, yet 2 years later it happened
– in 2013 nobody expected Ukraine to descend in civil war but one year later it was a fact. Nota bene, Russians and Ukrainians are very similar people.
JuanP on Mon, 18th Jul 2016 7:38 am
Boat “There is a big difference between the two political parties …”
Not enough of a difference for me to want to become an American and vote. The USA has been in decline all my life and will soon begin collapsing. Every empire in human history has gone through this process and the signs are obvious. Life in the USA will continue to get exponentially worse for the rest of our lives whether Hillary, the psychopathic bitch, or Trump, the narcissistic clown, wins. If you are not preparing now for the coming collapse you will regret it for the rest of your miserable life. I hope you like waiting a day in line for a loaf of old bread.
JuanP on Mon, 18th Jul 2016 7:46 am
Ap, I don’t know whether Boat makes any distinction between different types of immigrants. As a full blooded native American my guess is that he considers all the rest of us invading thieves.
I don’t see someone like him wanting a more intelligent and capable, better educated, legal immigrant like me competing with him. He is probably really pissed that I live in a luxury oceanfront condo with a direct ocean view, have a beautiful wife, and can spend all my life gardening, fishing, boating, doing whatever I want in HIS country, and helping those less fortunate because I don’t have to work for a living. LOL!
Boat on Mon, 18th Jul 2016 12:54 pm
JuanP,
“I don’t see someone like him wanting a more intelligent and capable, better educated, legal immigrant like me competing with him”
The point of most immigration discussion should be about sustainability in the host country. The US and most of the world ignores that discussion chasing growth. If it were determined by study there was plenty of water, food and resources for say 500 million people, yes we would have room for scrawny loud mouth shnooks like yourself. No problem.
A side issue. The US for example kept bringing in immigrants even when unemployment had jumped to 10 percent. That is bad policy.
And no JuanP I am not a hater like you. Houston is one of the most diverse cities on the planet. I think that’s great. I was raised to have inclusive values. That does not mean immigration policy is smart.
Another side issue. Immigrants should be brought in to fill jobs where there is a shortage. If there is a nurse shortage, bring in nurses. An engineer shortage, target engineers.
You and several other posters love to claim intelligence as if that separates you from the herd. Yet you cheer hate, love to point the finger, dream conspiracy and long for destruction. Plain o’l common sense is frequently lost in the conversation.
onlooker on Mon, 18th Jul 2016 1:07 pm
“You and several other posters love to claim intelligence as if that separates you from the herd. Yet you cheer hate, love to point the finger, dream conspiracy and long for destruction. Plain o’l common sense is frequently lost in the conversation.” I can speak for myself but i think I also speak for the other posters you mentioned. We do not cheer hate or long for destruction, we simply point out that we are headed there and manifest ceaselessly our intemperance for each other and our propensity to point fingers. That is the intelligent basis of some of “our’ arguments. Or do you refute any of this Boat ?
Apneaman on Mon, 18th Jul 2016 1:40 pm
Brent, another newbie huh? Ask any of the long term regulars if they think I’m a defender of empire ya fucking retard. A link to a book title is your evidence? Because it’s a book written by a historian? The title itself is a strawman by using the word “paradise” since any student of history and/or realist knows no such place has ever existed or will. Students of history also know that the Spanish have been trying to write any and all accomplishments and influence by the moors out of their history since Isabella and Ferdinand consolidated power and threw the last ones out. Same as it ever was. Big fucking deal, there are historians who are holocaust deniers and think AGW is a hoax. There are still American historians who try and spin Thomas Jefferson as a saint and decent human being when he was nothing of the kind, good writer, but did not believe in or abide by the principles he so eloquently penned. Do you have an argument, like in your own words? Did you even read the book? Setting aside the fact that Al Andalus was but one of many regions that prospered during the so called Islamic “golden age” by simply throwing out a link to a book you haven’t read becuase it from a certified historian is an argument from authority. Like saying you AGW is true because one scientist said so. Even 97% consensus does not make it true, but should be a heads up. Evidence it what counts and I could throw up more links to history books arguing the fact that the Islamic age was the most advanced for it’s time and that Europeans took many of their accomplishments, inventions and scientific advances and built upon them. Same as the Muslims built off those who came before them – same as it’s been since the humans first came on the scene and civilization started. No Renaissance without them. As for Al Andalus and their cultural refinements, simply go vacationing to Spain and one can still see their influence all over. Take a look at the Al Alhambra for starters then compare it to the European rulers castles from the same time period.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=el+alhambra&safe=off&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=685&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwihiZDrtP3NAhVG7WMKHcnmBn4Q_AUIBigB
Brent boy, do you think the modern world would exist without Algebra (Al-Jabr)? Algebra and a shit load of other things the European got from the muslim world lead to the modern world. The Muslim scholars got plenty from the Greeks and Indians, but also added much and without them there simply is no renaissance leading to the scientific revolution to modernity and all our wonderful goodies. Oh it or something like it may still have happened, but who knows it may have taken centuries longer and would obviously not be the same. If you had been around longer you would have already had the opportunity to click on the dozens of links to evidence I have provided that proves beyond any doubt modern western civilization is here because of that borrowing and advancing. Which is always how it has worked. It’s just that insecure white men want their own version of history – one where they and their ancestors invented everything and are solely responsible for everything that is awesome including milk. Myth making and believing people like that in society that ever existed. In fact, you can’t build a those giant tribes without the myths and superiority complex. Knowing that any and all evidence that I present that disproves this childlike mythological storytelling drives you people mental is why I continue doing it. It’s not that I think it will have any beneficial effect. No no no, it’s because nothing drips my dopamine like rubbing your stupid fucking faces in it. I like that and It’s soooooo fucking easy except for the typing, spelling, grammar and links.
I have no problem conceding that some liberal historians have sugar coated the reality of the time period to support their worldview today, all history is, in part, interpretive, but the fact remains that for that time period the muslim world was more advanced than the European in most ways and the west would not have come to power when and how they did without the foundations they borrowed from them. Same as the US might not have won the cold war space race without adopting 1400 of their sworn enemy who killed tens of thousands of Americans. Adopting Wernher Von Braun and 1400 other wicked smart fascist Nazi scum scientists whose worldview is a direct contradiction to everything America (officially) claims it stands for, yet knowing the advantage these anti democratic Nazi scum could provide cancels out all this cultural purity bullshit in an instant when a major power gain is on the line. Empires have always done this. Same thing with the murdering Japanese fascists scum scientists who worked on and used biological WMD’s. Free pass in exchange in for their knowledge and cooperation. Couldn’t bring them to America and insert them into the suburbs like the Nazi’s because they wern’t white and in 1945 the sheeple would never accept “the jap” in their society. Again it all boils down to the human’s emotional need to cling to cultural myths and stories of never before seen uniqueness and superiority that enhance their fragile self esteem and give meaning to their lives in a universe that appears to be meaningless. I’m not saying everyone clings to this bullshit, because I know that for some just trying to get through this life is hard enough and for others having and raising kids and trying to be decent or doing good works gives them meaning. It’s the weak of mind and easily manipulated mouth breathers and fanatics that fall prey to the horseshit and embrace it wholly, define their existence by it, and there is always more than enough of them for the elite to harness their emotions and bring on the shit. No avoiding it.
When the Moors (Muslims) Ruled Europe: Documentary (full)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM8HnvuKbAo
Islamic contributions to Medieval Europe
“From the 11th to 13th centuries, medieval Europe absorbed knowledge from Islamic civilization, which was then at its cultural peak. Of particular importance was the rediscovery of some ancient classic texts, most notably the work of the Greek natural philosopher Aristotle, through retranslations from Arabic. Also of note is the reception of advances in astronomy and mathematics made in the Islamic world during the 10th century, such as the development of the astrolabe.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_contributions_to_Medieval_Europe
JuanP on Mon, 18th Jul 2016 4:53 pm
Boat, I don’t think that my intelligence sets me apart from the crowd.
I believe my very radical honesty does that.
I have said before that I think this is a consequence of my mental illnesses.
I don’t think mentally healthy people can be as honest as I can.
My intelligence simply makes my honesty more of a burden.
JuanP on Mon, 18th Jul 2016 4:55 pm
Ap, Please use tinyurl.com to post long links like the google one above.
Now I can’t read the thread.
On the plus side I couldn’t read Boat’s comment. LOL!
Brent on Mon, 18th Jul 2016 5:21 pm
Why is it so difficult for digital dummies like Apneaman to grasp that you can’t post long links unless there are hyphens in it. This crappy forum software can’t deal with it. Now he has made his already incoherent posts even more unreadable.
Apneaman on Mon, 18th Jul 2016 6:37 pm
Brent you’re not capable of comprehending anything I write. Partly due to your poor diet I imagine. You can’t expect your cognitive abilities to function properly on a strict diet of seamen sucked out of dozens of anonymous cocks through the glory hole down at the local pool hall men’s bathroom. Try guzzling down a V-8 inbetween biowjobs.
Brent on Mon, 18th Jul 2016 6:58 pm
Meanwhile in Germany, a representative of the Merkel Jugend and heroes of
Apneaman has attacked unsuspecting trainpasse gers with an AX, shouting
Allah Snackbar.
(Sorry for the formatting but since Apneaman
can’t handle links, this needs to be)
In Ottowa six people were injured by a Muhamed,
Armed with a knife.
This is now becoming daily if not hourly routine.
Remember folks: diversity is our strength!
(Message offered by SPLC & ADL)
For me it is an open question which cuntry will sink into chaos first:
USA or France.
Betting is now opened.
Davy on Mon, 18th Jul 2016 8:41 pm
Brent, get a grip you just logged on and most here don’t give a shit what you are betting on. Put some time in with some mature and balanced comments and maybe you will find some support. At the moment you represent a nobody here today gone tomorrow. You may be Dustin’s sock puppet. My point is if you like it here then show it by investing yourself here.
Brent on Mon, 18th Jul 2016 9:36 pm
http://www.infowars.com/alex-jones-epic-speech-live-at-rnc/
Firebrand Alex Jones gives anti-globalist speech at RNC. Euros only.
US politics has changed for ever:
the Republicans has become explicitly the white party.
It always has been but from now on it no longer pretends otherwise.
The Reps emancipates itself from… um… Wallstreet.
This is irriversible.
The US political system just blew itself up.
Apneaman on Mon, 18th Jul 2016 10:21 pm
Brent boy, Alex Jones? LMAO. You certainly don’t need any help from me laying bare your retard status. WTF, did you transfer here from zerohedge or economic collapse comments section? Go home.
Brent on Tue, 19th Jul 2016 1:11 am
So what is your beef with Alex Jones?
That he opposes foreign intervention, empire and globalism?
As I told you: you are a closet apologist for the world’s largest terrorist organization.
Or do you resent that he wants to keep your pets out, the muslims?
Apneaman has yet to understand that he has the entire world against him.
Enjoy your coming demise.
Perhaps you better learn to pretend you are a Trump supporter.
Might be beneficial for your health once the shtf in North-America.
Apneaman on Tue, 19th Jul 2016 3:17 am
I hate Alex because he is an inbred shit for brains cocksucker like you, little bent boy.
Apneaman on Tue, 19th Jul 2016 4:13 am
Bent boy, the first time I heard Alex Jones (by accident) it took all of 5 seconds to know he was yet one more merican scam artist in a long long line. That you can’t spot this shows me and everyone else here that you are a total fool. I’m blaming you and other chronic droolers like you for Alex – he would not be around, but for your enabling. It’s so obvious there are entire web sites devoted to debunking his shit.
Looks like Alex is a Jew lover just like Trump.
Alex Jones Exposed
“1. – Alex Jones was married to a Jewish woman named Violet Nichols, with whom he has three(3) children.
2. – Alex Jones’ Jewish ex-wife and children all qualify for Israeli citizenship under Israel’s ‘Law of Return’.
3. – Alex Jones is funded by at least thirty-four(34) Jewish sponsors and advertisers whom financially support his radio show and websites.
4. – Alex Jones’ flagship radio station, KLBJ AM, in Austin, Texas, is owned by Emmis Communications, a media conglomerate based in Indianapolis, Indiana. The founder, chairman, president, and CEO of Emmis Communications is the Zionist Jew Jeffrey Smulyan.
5. – Alex Jones’ radio show is broadcast on Sirius XM Radio. The chairman of Sirius XM Radio is the Jew Eddy Hartenstein. The CEO of Sirius XM Radio is the Jew Mel Karmazin. The President of Sirius XM Radio is the Jew Scott Greenstein. Of the six(6) executive officers of Sirius XM Radio, five(5) are Jews.
6. – Alex Jones employs a Jewish attorney named Elizabeth Morgan who is also employed by Holly Lev Bronfman, the sister of Edgar Bronfman, Jr. Thus there are only two degrees of separation between Alex Jones and the Bronfman family, one of the wealthiest and most influential Jewish Zionist families in North America.
7. – Alex Jones’ employee Molly Maroney, the managing editor of Infowars Magazine, is a former intern for Stratfor, a private intelligence agency based in Austin, Texas, which has been linked to the CIA and Mossad. The founder and CEO of Stratfor is the Zionist Jew George Friedman. Thus there are only two degrees of separation between Alex Jones and Stratfor.”
http://alexjonesexposed.info/
Alex Jones: Professional Con Artist
So if both Trump and Jones are pro Jew then anyone who is pro Trump and/or Jones is pro Jew by default.
Ivanka Trump: Dad was ‘very supportive’ of my Jewish conversion
“Ivanka Trump, who works for her real estate magnate father’s corporation, had an Orthodox conversion before marrying Jared Kushner, the scion of another real estate family. ”
http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Ivanka-Trump-Dad-was-very-supportive-of-my-Jewish-conversion-451153
Fully converted Jew daughter married to a rich 1%er Jew with lots of connections.
Looks like the full Zionization Jewafication of the merica nation is but one election away. Go Trump Go!
Davy on Tue, 19th Jul 2016 4:47 am
Trump is pro-Trump. He is pro-anybody that is pro-Trump. This is what makes him so dangerous to the system. The system is dealing with widespread anger and discontent and a perfect condition for the rise of a megalomaniac and or a fascist group of psychopaths. Mix a megalomaniac up with a fascist group and you have a potent destructive force. It is debatable whether a status quo Hillary is better or worse than a system destroying Trump with an angry fascist army behind him.
I am going to throw my opinion behind Trump because it is my hope he severs the US connections to multiple global commitments that are negative for my local. At this point I could give a shit about the rest of the world because it does not matter. What matters now is what will shake out for my local when the world collapses. I am happy to hear Trump’s opposition to immigration not because I have a problem with immigrants but because the US is in population and consumption overshoot. If a collapse comes it will be people numbers and dependence of too many people that is the problem. I want to see the global military commitments reduced. They won’t be eliminated of course but they can be reduced. Trump will do this not because he want to be an isolationist but because he will threaten a world with US isolationism and that threat will become a self-fulfilling reality. It appears he intends to make amends with Russia which is a big positive unless that would backfire and we have a battle between two dictators like Stalin and Hitler. Trumps China policy looks economically combative and that surely will put globalism under pressure and likely speed its demise.
I would vote for Trump because he will throw the world into needed crisis sooner than what the status quo trend might deliver. Real change only comes in crisis. We need a global crisis to kick start some changes before it is too late. It may be too late and will be too late for much in the way of adaptation anyway but this defeatism has a quantitative quality. It is an unknown until we go into crisis and see where the chips fall. How bad will it get? In the end quality of life matters when you are facing destructive change. I am debating whether to go ahead and vote for Trump as a vote for destructive change or do a George Carlin and not vote because a vote is supporting a circus event of absurdity. I am still on the fence but in any case it does not matter much. My wife is Italian and had C-span on last night watching the spectacle much like Rome must have been near its end. She knows our politics and strangely has more interest in it than I. I can’t bear to watch it because “why”? Why watch absurdity. Sure it is entertaining but in a dark and dangerous way. These people are the leadership and that leadership is taking us down a road of darkness instead of shinning a light on the darkness ahead.
Brent on Tue, 19th Jul 2016 6:48 am
Nobody in America can afford to discuss Jews.
If you do, like David Duke, you are going to be virtually expelled from polite society.
Watch a few minutes the testimony of the courageous African-American congressman Earl Hilliard, from 12:00:
https://youtu.be/yw_v3hqtCl0
“Nobody wants to discuss Jews, it is a nono”
Is Alex Jones stupid? No, he isn’t.
Ignoring j-power is a rational strategy.
Is he fake? No I do not think so.
Not every Jew is a Trotzky commie globalist wannabee.
There are plenty of prominent Jews who oppose these Jewish neocons.
But they get allergic if you begin to mention the Jews as a race.
It is obvious that Jones “won’t mention the Jew”.
So he is not attacked as an antisemite.
Just a bigot.lol