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Would You Subscribe to Peak Oil Magazine?

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Re: Would You Subscribe to Peak Oil Magazine?

Unread postby Aaron » Thu 20 Dec 2007, 17:16:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') think you may be looking at PO.com site's traffic, which I'm guessing has greatly increased lately, and thinking maybe there is a market for this stuff.


Ummm not really.

I'm just speculating and wondering if it would be worth the effort.

If it would prove useful to enough folks to attempt.

Sorry you had trouble with your PDF sales.


My sales were actually quite good. Issue #3, I would describe as "excellent' and it continues to sell well.

But given the costs associated with a print magazine, it is likely completely unviable until "awareness" among the general public goes up by several orders of magnitude.

Now if you've got a stash of cash and are willing to front all the costs and almost certainly lose your money for the sake of "spreading the word" then hey go for it.


And what would be these "costs"?
The problem is, of course, that not only is economics bankrupt, but it has always been nothing more than politics in disguise... economics is a form of brain damage.

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Re: Would You Subscribe to Peak Oil Magazine?

Unread postby Concerned » Thu 20 Dec 2007, 17:38:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') think you may be looking at PO.com site's traffic, which I'm guessing has greatly increased lately, and thinking maybe there is a market for this stuff.


Ummm not really.

I'm just speculating and wondering if it would be worth the effort.

If it would prove useful to enough folks to attempt.

Sorry you had trouble with your PDF sales.


My sales were actually quite good. Issue #3, I would describe as "excellent' and it continues to sell well.

But given the costs associated with a print magazine, it is likely completely unviable until "awareness" among the general public goes up by several orders of magnitude.

Now if you've got a stash of cash and are willing to front all the costs and almost certainly lose your money for the sake of "spreading the word" then hey go for it.


And what would be these "costs"?


You will need good writers, copy editors, photo's, chart's, go out interview people e.g. Lynch, Simmons, oil execs et el..

Heineken mentioned a copy editor.

Syndicate stories from other places e.g. CNN, LATOC or TheOilDrum.

You would need I imagine a small staff to run it. Possibly look at some revenue stream selling advertising. Generating PDF's using Adobe requires software that costs money.

There are probably more things involved. How big would the magazine be? 2-4 pages, 20 pages or 100+ pages?

One thing I have found with magazines is you would have to monitor content carefully to ensure it does not become repetitive that will kill sales.

A strategic PO product placement into the current media offering, with a vision of on going issues beyond 12-18 months will take considerable effort and thought.

Collating information on this website for final consumption would be a mammoth task.

Would people buy it? Whats the upside where is the value? PO was never a message about happy endless consumption. I don't think you could position the magazine as PO end of the world game over and expect copies to fly off the shelf.

It would have to be spun and marketed as forward thinking, generational change. Coupled with say saving the planet strong tie in's to the latest rage of climate change and unlike Kuntsler it would HAVE to offer people hope.

I've rambled but I do think Matt has a point in that a proper magazine that aims to have a decent life will take considerable time and money to create.
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Re: Would You Subscribe to Peak Oil Magazine?

Unread postby steam_cannon » Thu 20 Dec 2007, 18:14:09

You've probably already thought about this... But you might consider printing on demand. That way if as Matt suggests nothing sells, no one is stuck with a pile of unsold prints.

Print on demand
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Print_on_demand

A company I've ordered from before.
http://www.cafepress.com/cp/info/sell/books.aspx
[web]http://www.cafepress.com/cp/info/sell/books.aspx[/web]

Example
[web]http://www.cafepress.com/buy/book%20literature/-/pv_design_prod/p_storeid.85466320/pNo_85466320/id_16397912/opt_/pg_/c_/fpt_[/web]
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Re: Would You Subscribe to Peak Oil Magazine?

Unread postby JPL » Thu 20 Dec 2007, 18:59:49

Great idea - I'd buy it - printed, definitely, for me - I still enjoy sitting up in bed & reading hard copy. Bi-monthly or quarterly would be fine.

So where do I send the check & for how much?

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Re: Would You Subscribe to Peak Oil Magazine?

Unread postby MattSavinar » Thu 20 Dec 2007, 19:01:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', '
')
And what would be these "costs"?


A physical print mag is much more complicated than a website. I'll leave it at that.

Assuming you're okay with losing money you put in and you can find a staff to work for free you can probably pull it off . . .
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Re: Would You Subscribe to Peak Oil Magazine?

Unread postby JPL » Thu 20 Dec 2007, 20:10:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', '
')
And what would be these "costs"?


A physical print mag is much more complicated than a website. I'll leave it at that.

Assuming you're okay with losing money you put in and you can find a staff to work for free you can probably pull it off . . .


People won't 'pay' for stuff on the internet because they know they can go to some other web-site next-day & get it for free. Plus 99.9% of it is crap anyhow.

Printed magazines are different. It's that reassuring thud when it hits the bottom of the letter-box. OK, it might be crap as well but at least it's crap you can get hold of and wave around at dinner-parties.

Plus, if all else fails, you can also use it light the wood-stove with or wipe your bum on your eco-loo (grin).

I'm with Arron. Print & be damned! Anyhow, like I said, you got your first subscriber here regardless of what anyone else thinks...

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Re: Would You Subscribe to Peak Oil Magazine?

Unread postby MattSavinar » Thu 20 Dec 2007, 20:16:20

JPL,

Realisticallyy, whatever you produce in a PO print mag is not going to be that much better than the free content on the web. Sure, if you really, really bust your ass and produce some truly compelling content it might be a bit better than the combined efforts of the big PO sites (TOD,PO.com,EB,LATOC). The question is "is it going to be so much better than you find say more than 200 people to pay a subscription fee for it?" Highly doubtful but if somebody wants to give it a try, best of luck.
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Re: Would You Subscribe to Peak Oil Magazine?

Unread postby MattSavinar » Thu 20 Dec 2007, 20:22:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', 'A')ssuming you're okay with losing money you put in and you can find a staff to work for free you can probably pull it off . . .

Nah, 1 or 2 people can do a small run pretty easily (speaking from experience), and you can take advance orders to keep from getting in the hole.


Shanya,

IMHO< there are not more than 200 people in the entire world who will pay for PO related content at this point given the proliferation of free content on the web.
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Re: Would You Subscribe to Peak Oil Magazine?

Unread postby Heineken » Thu 20 Dec 2007, 20:23:10

I'm willing to do the copy editing for a token. Just something slightly north of free. A mere gesture of a fee.

At least until it takes off!
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Re: Would You Subscribe to Peak Oil Magazine?

Unread postby steam_cannon » Thu 20 Dec 2007, 20:33:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', 'J')PL,

Realisticallyy, whatever you produce in a PO print mag is not going to be that much better than the free content on the web.
Here's the problem, I only have so much time to sort though all the articles for the most important ones and I miss a lot of the best posts. But a few people could very easily put together a list of the best articles and discussions in the past month and together hit everything important.

Sure the net is great, but it's big, jumbled and takes a lot of time to sort though. A magazine can bring together topics that we have discussed looking at many different angles, for example we could have a climate change issue that hits all the things like remaining fossil fuels, drought predictions, oceans reversing their role as a carbon sink, global dimming... I usually file articles about these things myself, but a magazine that brings it all together would be a great reference.
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Re: Would You Subscribe to Peak Oil Magazine?

Unread postby Tanada » Thu 20 Dec 2007, 20:47:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('steam_cannon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', 'J')PL,

Realisticallyy, whatever you produce in a PO print mag is not going to be that much better than the free content on the web.
Here's the problem, I only have so much time to sort though all the articles for the most important ones and I miss a lot of the best posts. But a few people could very easily put together a list of the best articles and discussions in the past month and together hit everything important.

Sure the net is great, but it's big, jumbled and takes a lot of time to sort though. A magazine can bring together topics that we have discussed looking at many different angles, for example we could have a climate change issue that hits all the things like remaining fossil fuels, drought predictions, oceans reversing their role as a carbon sink, global dimming... I usually file articles about these things myself, but a magazine that brings it all together would be a great reference.


Excellent points SC, I was pondering a similer post but you said it for me very well.

I would subscribe (depending on price), on paper not PDF, with well sorted articles key to trends and events. A good editor would clean out the racism crud and lame repetitious stupidity while providing solid facts with citation's. Unverifiable claims would need to be labled speculation if you want to make this a valuable publication, and self publishing would definately be the way to go.
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Re: Would You Subscribe to Peak Oil Magazine?

Unread postby JPL » Thu 20 Dec 2007, 21:17:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', 'J')PL,

Realisticallyy, whatever you produce in a PO print mag is not going to be that much better than the free content on the web. Sure, if you really, really bust your ass and produce some truly compelling content it might be a bit better than the combined efforts of the big PO sites (TOD,PO.com,EB,LATOC). The question is "is it going to be so much better than you find say more than 200 people to pay a subscription fee for it?" Highly doubtful but if somebody wants to give it a try, best of luck.


Hi Matt,

Yea, you are right - the content would be (by definition) narrow, lacking in peer-review, and out-of-date by the time it arrived.

But this is exactly my kind of magazine! I WANT reviews of home-power systems, scare-stories about Gharwar, small-ads selling bug-out bags and permaculture courses. I don't need up-to-the-minute - I've been waiting 20 years for Peak Oil anyhow so I'm sure it won't catch me un-aware.

In the mean-time, I like to settle down with this kind of stuff & read it at my leisure. Every couple of months would suit me great...

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Re: Would You Subscribe to Peak Oil Magazine?

Unread postby threadbear » Thu 20 Dec 2007, 21:34:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', 'I')f it proved interesting and useful beyond what the website already does today?

We were just wondering if it was worth pursuing as another way to expand the discussion.

Thanks for the input!

Vote!


How about a magazine simply called "Worry" or "Doom" where peak everything, plus bird flu, climate change, etc... is discussed. I might sign up.

You would do well to have a political bias that captures the libertarian right and left, as Ron Paul has done--plus a somewhat spiritual slant or ongoing discussions slanted that way, regardless of your own stance, because people love to get pumped about Jesus, the nine eyed moon demon, the great whatever.... Also advice columns, how to get and stay out of debt, etc..
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Re: Would You Subscribe to Peak Oil Magazine?

Unread postby steam_cannon » Thu 20 Dec 2007, 21:59:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'H')ow about a magazine simply called "Worry" or "Doom" where peak everything, plus bird flu, climate change, etc... is discussed. I might sign up.
There could be copyright problems calling it "doom", but it would be amusing...

Image

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'Y')ou would do well to have a political bias that captures the libertarian right and left, as Ron Paul has done--plus a somewhat spiritual slant or ongoing discussions slanted that way, regardless of your own stance, because people love to get pumped about Jesus, the nine eyed moon demon, the great whatever.... Also advice columns, how to get and stay out of debt, etc..
There's no point in building in biases, since this wouldn't be something to forward a corporate agenda...

Anyway, I think "peak oil" or "oil analysts quarterly" would be better names. This isn't about flashy gimics and sexing things up. This would be for us, we're not talking about creating an outlet for corporate rhetoric. There's enough of that already.
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Re: Would You Subscribe to Peak Oil Magazine?

Unread postby Heineken » Thu 20 Dec 2007, 23:01:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', 'A')ctually though I agree with Matt that the circulation would be small. I guess the question is whether this is a labor of love or an attempt to make serious money.


Shanny, the circulation would be small, perhaps tiny, at first, but with the events WE know are coming, it could soar.

The period of low circulation would coincide with the development of the journal itself, which is a good thing because there would be so many kinks to work out.

The key is to occupy the niche. To be positioned for potential takeoff.

Successful business enterprises usually start small and exercise patience.
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Re: Would You Subscribe to Peak Oil Magazine?

Unread postby threadbear » Thu 20 Dec 2007, 23:02:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('steam_cannon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'H')ow about a magazine simply called "Worry" or "Doom" where peak everything, plus bird flu, climate change, etc... is discussed. I might sign up.
There could be copyright problems calling it "doom", but it would be amusing...

Image

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'Y')ou would do well to have a political bias that captures the libertarian right and left, as Ron Paul has done--plus a somewhat spiritual slant or ongoing discussions slanted that way, regardless of your own stance, because people love to get pumped about Jesus, the nine eyed moon demon, the great whatever.... Also advice columns, how to get and stay out of debt, etc..
There's no point in building in biases, since this wouldn't be something to forward a corporate agenda...

Anyway, I think "peak oil" or "oil analysts quarterly" would be better names. This isn't about flashy gimics and sexing things up. This would be for us, we're not talking about creating an outlet for corporate rhetoric. There's enough of that already.



Au contraire! It is all about sexing things up. Wait a minute...it's just for those registered here? How about people who just log on once in a while but don't want to fry their eyes reading online?

"Oil Analysts quarterly" can't compete with "We're all going to Dieeee!!" Sorry, if it bleeds, it leads.
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Re: Would You Subscribe to Peak Oil Magazine?

Unread postby Heineken » Thu 20 Dec 2007, 23:13:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('steam_cannon', 'A')nyway, I think "peak oil" or "oil analysts quarterly" would be better names. This isn't about flashy gimics and sexing things up. This would be for us, we're not talking about creating an outlet for corporate rhetoric. There's enough of that already.


Steam, I agree with everything you said except this one important detail.

I think the journal could be sexy without kowtowing to unsavory corporate interests. Editorial control provides for that.

Packaging sells. Originality sells. A title like "Oil Analysts' Quarterly" is a prescription for obscurity and failure, IMO. Too technical and too narrow.

The idea as I see it would be to include more content than just PO. Just as the website does. PO would provide a sort of central mass around which the moons of GW, the environment, survivalism, permaculture, population issues, etc., revolve.

Well-written, well-edited features and sidebars in a fairly sexy package. Good graphics. Tie-ins to the website. Ads from carefully screened companies. A few clever cartoons. And smart marketing. It could work.
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Re: Would You Subscribe to Peak Oil Magazine?

Unread postby steam_cannon » Fri 21 Dec 2007, 00:05:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'W')ell-written, well-edited features and sidebars in a fairly sexy package. Good graphics. Tie-ins to the website. Ads from carefully screened companies. A few clever cartoons. And smart marketing. It could work.
Absolutely right! With the right people sexing things up can be done, without making it corporate crap! I don't have expectations so high, but I agree it can be done.

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Re: Would You Subscribe to Peak Oil Magazine?

Unread postby MattSavinar » Fri 21 Dec 2007, 00:06:28

threadbar,

You just described LATOC, sans the spiritual crapola. Back off my turf buster.

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Re: Would You Subscribe to Peak Oil Magazine?

Unread postby MattSavinar » Fri 21 Dec 2007, 00:08:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', 'A')ctually though I agree with Matt that the circulation would be small. I guess the question is whether this is a labor of love or an attempt to make serious money.


Shanny, the circulation would be small, perhaps tiny, at first, but with the events WE know are coming, it could soar.

The period of low circulation would coincide with the development of the journal itself, which is a good thing because there would be so many kinks to work out.

The key is to occupy the niche. To be positioned for potential takeoff.

Successful business enterprises usually start small and exercise patience.


This is a common myth floating around the PO blogosphere, that once the crisis arrives people will want to read a reality-based assesment of it. Belief in this myth requires a drastic underestimation of the stupidity of the general public.

Oil will be $200 a barrel, this will drive a lot of traffic to PO sites, perhaps 2-3 times as much as they get now.* But the general public will still be as uninterested as ever.

*Assuming the grid is still up at that point.
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