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Wither Al Franken?

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: Meet Minnesota's Newest Senator !!!

Unread postby AgentR » Tue 30 Jun 2009, 19:22:39

Let me ask a related question then... Should Gore have halted his appeals once it become mathematically apparent that either he would lose the vote flat out and Bush certified the winner, or the House of Representatives would be forced to vote, thus certifying Bush the winner?

Were all those late Supreme Court appeals wrong of him?

I don't think so personally; but thats kind of what you're suggesting.
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Re: Meet Minnesota's Newest Senator !!!

Unread postby 3aidlillahi » Tue 30 Jun 2009, 19:29:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') don't think so personally; but thats kind of what you're suggesting.


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Re: Franken win means Dem. super-majority in Senate

Unread postby vision-master » Tue 30 Jun 2009, 19:40:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TreeFarmer', '
')Let's give the Libertarians a try...


Libertarians don't give a rat's ass about the environment.


The Rothschilds wouldn't allow the Libertarians to rule!
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Re: Meet Minnesota's Newest Senator !!!

Unread postby AgentR » Tue 30 Jun 2009, 19:40:53

Both of you really seem to be suggesting that he should not have pursued all his legal avenues of appeal on the election. I tend to think politicians should ALWAYS pursue the legal avenues to their conclusions when the margin is very slim; as its really the only way the system gets tested and improved for one; but it also guarantees that the process is truly open and visible.

Would the punchcard and funky ballot printing that happened in Florida ever have been noticed and challenged with any intensity if the election hadn't hinged on Florida, or the Florida vote had been 55 / 45 for either candidate? I think not.
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Re: Meet Minnesota's Newest Senator !!!

Unread postby vision-master » Tue 30 Jun 2009, 19:49:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', 'B')oth of you really seem to be suggesting that he should not have pursued all his legal avenues of appeal on the election. I tend to think politicians should ALWAYS pursue the legal avenues to their conclusions when the margin is very slim; as its really the only way the system gets tested and improved for one; but it also guarantees that the process is truly open and visible.

Would the punchcard and funky ballot printing that happened in Florida ever have been noticed and challenged with any intensity if the election hadn't hinged on Florida, or the Florida vote had been 55 / 45 for either candidate? I think not.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')innesota's battleground status was cemented, however, in it's tight elections for Governor, both in 1960 when Republican Elmer Andersen narrowly defeated Democratic incumbent Orville Freedman and in the the breathtakingly close 1962 gubernatorial election, where Andersen lost reelection to Democrat Karl Rolvaag in the tightest election in Minnesota history.

The final margin was 619,842 votes for Rolvaag to 619,751 votes for Anderson...a margin of only 91 votes or less than 0.01% of the vote.

Unlike the current Senate race, which is in it's sixth month of litigation, the 1962 Gubernatorial race was decided in just over four months.

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Re: Meet Minnesota's Newest Senator !!!

Unread postby 3aidlillahi » Tue 30 Jun 2009, 19:52:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', 'B')oth of you really seem to be suggesting that he should not have pursued all his legal avenues of appeal on the election. I tend to think politicians should ALWAYS pursue the legal avenues to their conclusions when the margin is very slim; as its really the only way the system gets tested and improved for one; but it also guarantees that the process is truly open and visible.

Would the punchcard and funky ballot printing that happened in Florida ever have been noticed and challenged with any intensity if the election hadn't hinged on Florida, or the Florida vote had been 55 / 45 for either candidate? I think not.


How'd you get that from what I wrote? I was simply remarking on his hypocrisy. He's free to take the legal action to the extreme. Just makes you look silly when you do the exact thing you told someone else not to do - especially when you took it to such an extreme. I don't remember Gore saying, when he thought he had the election, for Bush to drop out of the race.
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Re: Meet Minnesota's Newest Senator !!!

Unread postby HeckuvaJob » Tue 30 Jun 2009, 19:56:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', '.').. Should Gore have halted his appeals once it become mathematically apparent that either he would lose the vote flat out and Bush certified the winner...

Funny, I remember Bush's lead shrinking, then disappearing after being sworn in.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', 'W')ere all those late Supreme Court appeals wrong of him? I don't think so personally...

Apparently the Supreme Court disagrees with you.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nother fun thing about the Bush v. Gore ruling is that the majority opinion contains the following: "Our consideration is limited to the present circumstances, for the problem of equal protection in election processes generally presents many complexities." In plain English, the five Supreme Court Justices declared that their ruling was not to be taken as a precedent for interpreting the law in the future. We may well find out just how binding that statement was.
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Re: Franken win means Dem. super-majority in Senate

Unread postby mattduke » Tue 30 Jun 2009, 19:57:18

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Re: Meet Minnesota's Newest Senator !!!

Unread postby AgentR » Tue 30 Jun 2009, 20:22:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('HeckuvaJob', 'F')unny, I remember Bush's lead shrinking, then disappearing after being sworn in.


Please.. and that matters for the result of the presidential election... how?

There is a DATE; and it controls pretty much everything. After that DATE, it wouldn't matter if Gore was shown to be winning Florida by the thousands; the electors could not be accepted by the college. In this particular case, that result would cause the election to be decided by the solidly Republican House of Representatives; much like a Prime Minister's election. IE, Bush victory.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nother fun thing about the Bush v. Gore ruling is that the majority opinion contains the following: "Our consideration is limited to the present circumstances, for the problem of equal protection in election processes generally presents many complexities." In plain English, the five Supreme Court Justices declared that their ruling was not to be taken as a precedent for interpreting the law in the future. We may well find out just how binding that statement was.


To a certain extent I agree here about the screwiness of the intervention. They should have just let it play out as it was supposed to; which would be the electors from 49 states being unable to reach a majority, and the election decided by the House. Apparently the Supreme Court felt we were too childish to handle such a complex situation ourselves and just "poof" did it for us.

My point is that Gore was right to pursue the case even past the point where he could actually win the presidency. Doing so was right because it highlighted numerous flaws in the voting system which have since received attention (adequate or no... debatable)
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Re: Franken win means Dem. super-majority in Senate

Unread postby mefistofeles » Tue 30 Jun 2009, 20:28:18

What difference does it make? The left wing of the republicratic party is just as corrupt and owned by the bank as the right wing of the party? Case in point, look at what happened to Summers and Rubins after they left the Clinton administration, they both left for high paying consulting gigs with Wall Street. What do you think is going to happen when Geithner, leaves? He's going to get a "real job" on Wall Street and make 50X whatever they are paying him now. Look Rahm Emmanuel, after working for Clinton he took off and got a high paying job on Wall Street.

These guys aren't going punish Wall Street. Why should they, it's probably their next stop after government.

Its absolutely disgusting how incestous the system is. It's no wonder Congress can't anything done. These guys are on the take just like the last group of clowns in charge. I think anyone who thinks that the the either Republicans or Democrats are clean is out of touch with reality of our system. They have both been bought lock stock and barrel by their paymasters on Wall Street.
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Re: Meet Minnesota's Newest Senator !!!

Unread postby HeckuvaJob » Tue 30 Jun 2009, 20:34:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', 'P')lease.. and that matters for the result of the presidential election... how?

You're welcome. It matters if you like your presidents selected or elected.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', 'T')here is a DATE; and it controls pretty much everything.

Your DATE had a name: Katherine Harris

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', 'T')o a certain extent I agree here about the screwiness of the intervention.

Intervention - now that's something we can both agree on.
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Re: Franken win means Dem. super-majority in Senate

Unread postby Starvid » Tue 30 Jun 2009, 21:09:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mefistofeles', 'W')hat difference does it make? The left wing of the republicratic party is just as corrupt and owned by the bank as the right wing of the party? Case in point, look at what happened to Summers and Rubins after they left the Clinton administration, they both left for high paying consulting gigs with Wall Street. What do you think is going to happen when Geithner, leaves? He's going to get a "real job" on Wall Street and make 50X whatever they are paying him now. Look Rahm Emmanuel, after working for Clinton he took off and got a high paying job on Wall Street.

These guys aren't going punish Wall Street. Why should they, it's probably their next stop after government.

Its absolutely disgusting how incestous the system is. It's no wonder Congress can't anything done. These guys are on the take just like the last group of clowns in charge. I think anyone who thinks that the the either Republicans or Democrats are clean is out of touch with reality of our system. They have both been bought lock stock and barrel by their paymasters on Wall Street.

Hear hear!
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Re: Franken win means Dem. super-majority in Senate

Unread postby mos6507 » Tue 30 Jun 2009, 21:20:18

What difference does it make? Stuff like this. Say what you want about democratic fiscal policy, but I'd like to see some catchup work done on energy and environmental legislation after 8 years of moving in the totally wrong direction. Wall-street and banksters won't amount to a hill of beans after peak oil and global warming is done with us.
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Re: Meet Minnesota's Newest Senator !!!

Unread postby mos6507 » Tue 30 Jun 2009, 21:31:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', '
')Should Gore have halted his appeals once it become mathematically apparent that either he would lose the vote flat out and Bush certified the winner, or the House of Representatives would be forced to vote, thus certifying Bush the winner?


It's not an identical situation. This election was not decided based on hanging chads, overvotes and undervotes the way the 2000 presidential election was. 2000 was---complicated. The ballot procedures were an absolute mess, which is what ultimately caused elections around the country to change the way they do things going forward. With Coleman every time they recounted it seemed like Franken GAINED votes. It was obvious that Coleman wasn't going to be able to manufacture votes out of thin air. He just kept appealing for the sake of appealing.
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Re: Meet Minnesota's Newest Senator !!!

Unread postby Sixstrings » Tue 30 Jun 2009, 21:35:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AlexdeLarge', '[')img]http://rightwingmn.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/al_franken_bunny_web.jpg[/img]


Minn. rules for Franken in Senate fight
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9955CL06&show_article=1


You can't make this sh*t up ! ROTFLMAO


The SUPERMAJORITY is real. It's gonna rock your world, Alex. :lol:
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Re: Meet Minnesota's Newest Senator !!!

Unread postby AlexdeLarge » Tue 30 Jun 2009, 22:06:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')
The SUPERMAJORITY is real. It's gonna rock your world, Alex. :lol:


My world? LOL Sorry sweet pea..........I'm at at the top of the food chain and going Galt. Plus I have lots of popcorn and I am having so much fun watching the "change" you voted for become your reality!!! ;)

Alex tried to warn ya last fall, but all the hopeyness had you a litttle punch drunk so I guess it's out of the frying pan and into the fire! It's all Obama now 24/7. He has the keys to the kingdom. "Hope" it works out for you.

But what do I know.........I'm sure everything will be just fine. Big Al will help out lots too because gosh darn it.........he likes you!

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Re: Meet Minnesota's Newest Senator !!!

Unread postby mos6507 » Tue 30 Jun 2009, 23:56:56

The time to ridicule him was BEFORE the election, Alex. Now you've just got to suffer the indignities of liberal Air America icon heading to Washington to break the 60 vote threshold for the Dems.

Image

So...

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Re: Meet Minnesota's Newest Senator !!!

Unread postby pablonite » Wed 01 Jul 2009, 00:20:24

It's always entertaining watching Americans arguing over their politics.
You got electronic vote counters and both (yeah - that is all of 2) "parties" with strangely similiar agendas and just to amuse you the vote is always a close one.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AlexdeLarge', 'I')'m at at the top of the food chain

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Re: Meet Minnesota's Newest Senator !!!

Unread postby mos6507 » Wed 01 Jul 2009, 00:49:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pablonite', 'I')t's always entertaining watching Americans arguing over their politics.


And what form of utopia are you living in, smart ass?
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Re: Meet Minnesota's Newest Senator !!!

Unread postby WhatMeWorry » Wed 01 Jul 2009, 02:40:49

One without high speed internet? [smilie=5slick.gif]
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