[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '.').. If you need to pick a life from the past, at least pick an easier one!

[Ludi]

Oh goodness no! Raiding was a very hard, extremely dangerous way of life that few groups chose to pursue. The Vikings, Comanche (in my area), a few others. Most folks would not be willing to take such risks, or be capable of such a life....

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'I') take it few of you have Amish neighbors.

I don’t pretend to know what is in another’s heart but though theirs’ may be in the right place, they are just as beholden to the teat as all the rest of us.

Sad but true.

[Pops]

The community around here is as Lore says independent from others and establishes it’s own rules. As he says many are coming from other areas as the price of land rises.

No electricity, but use battery-powered tools (charged at an English house), diesel powered air compressors (water pumps, stationary tools, etc) and white gas fueled lanterns.
No cars but English drivers, skid-steers, custom tractor work is OK as well is driving just about anything in the field someone else owns.
No phones closer than a couple hundred feet from the house in a dedicated small building.
Most that work outside the home work in construction.
Go to the supermarket, feed and hardware store like everyone else.

OTOH they are close knit, work hard, pool resources and labor, aren’t addicted to Stuff, and can make do.

They will surely be hurt right along with the rest of us but may have somewhat of an upper hand because of those aspects of their lifestyle - if they can make the mortgage...

[MalcolmV]

Some time ago I was talking with a Mennonite woman about Bradshaws' ideas about psychology and birth order. She said she was child 19 of 20 siblings, (same father, same mother) forget birth order she was lucky if her parents could remember her name.

Like any insular community there are some not nice things that go on. I would want to learn from them but not imitate them.

The company that I get hammer mill screens from is run by Modern Mennonites. Apparently small farming skills translate well into running machine and carpentry shops. A friend who has a welding shop contracts out production runs to them, good workmanship and good prices.

The horses for the buggies are mostly standardbreds that didn't make it on the race circuit. There is a stockyard in Collingwood that has horse auctions. The horses sell by the pound at meat prices. When I was there years ago the price was about $.70/ lb, so say $800 for a standardbred. As we don't consume much horsemeat in Canada it's shipped to France. Poland is Frances main supplier and as the contracts come up for renewal in January that's the best time to buy as the price is down.

[bshirt]

We have a Hudderite colony just five miles away from our little town.

It's simply amazing how organized, clean and efficient they are. Their huge turkey buildings are a sight to see....perfectly straight from peak to peak. Their huge dinning areas are 100% spotless. Always. The food they sell (turkey, eggs, bacon, etc) is always fresh and delicious.

I've talked to some of them and found they train their youth in different trades starting at a early age.

While I haven't the foggiest clue how their colonies are organized, it's obvious as heck "somebody" really knows what they're doing. They impress the hell out of me.

[Pops]

Sorry if we have highjacked your thread 80, speak up and someone will split off this Amish sideline.

[NotMyBlood]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'O')h goodness no! Raiding was a very hard, extremely dangerous way of life that few groups chose to pursue. The Vikings, Comanche (in my area), a few others. Most folks would not be willing to take such risks, or be capable of such a life....

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NotMyBlood', 'T')hen again, some of us secretly hope TSHTF hard in the next 5-10 years so were still relatively young to live such a life. Even if its just a few years. Like you said, chances are you'll die of something.

[Hawkcreek]

--

[MC2]

Why the old world must die:

Perfect case in point - people in cubicles spending large amounts of their paid time on the internet, posting about peak oil. Ever notice how all the web sites slow to nil traffic on the weekends?

Too funny for words. This is EXACTLY why the world will not go on as it has, why we must have a new economic model, why most jobs will just go away, etc.

It will not make sense to keep moving the drones back and forth between their hovels and their cubicles. This has all got to end.

[NotMyBlood]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MC2', 'W')hy the old world must die:

Perfect case in point - people in cubicles spending large amounts of their paid time on the internet, posting about peak oil. Ever notice how all the web sites slow to nil traffic on the weekends?

Too funny for words. This is EXACTLY why the world will not go on as it has, why we must have a new economic model, why most jobs will just go away, etc.
.

[MC2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NotMyBlood', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MC2', 'W')hy the old world must die:

Perfect case in point - people in cubicles spending large amounts of their paid time on the internet, posting about peak oil. Ever notice how all the web sites slow to nil traffic on the weekends?
.
.

[AndyK]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hawkcreek', 'N')o way are we going back to the 1880's. All knowledge will not be destroyed.
I know I can go to the junkyard and come back with enough parts to build a working windmill generator.
I know I can use junk material to build a solar furnace.
I know how easy it is to build a wood-fired still to produce fuel quality alcohol.

We may all spend part of our day working in the garden, but that will leave a lot of time for producing simple super-het radios, machine tools, and other stuff.

The only security you ever have is what you know.

[gg3]

Pure hunter/gatherer (HG) lifestyle operates at a very very low population density: in the northern California forests, something like 2 - 3 humans per square mile. In less forgiving climates & ecosytstems, no doubt even lower density.

So if you're planning to go pre HG, you will need to find a place where you have lots of wild nature for your range. OTOH, learning HG methods is highly useful anyway because they can be combined with other sets of methods to provide a highly flexible approach to subsistence.

Agreed, horticulture & permaculture are more efficient than agriculture. (For those of you who think permaculture is some kind of hippy nonsense, in fact it's basic systems analysis applied to horticulture. Once you know that, you can study systems theory and apply it on your own and end up with convergent outcomes that will be recognizable to people who have been formally trained in permaculture.

Re. insecticides: chopped-up tobacco stalks, dried and burned to produce smoke that will drive off and/or kill insect pests in gardens. No doubt there are other natural pesticides that are easily produced.

Re. 1880s technology: Do your research and you will find that we had most of the important industrial stuff by that time. Studying the history of technology is fascinating, I urge everyone to pick a few subject areas that interest them and then do the digging.

Many folks who are used to living in the modern world, highly underestimate the technical capabilities of people 100 -150 years ago.

[Hawkcreek]

--

[Aaron]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NotMyBlood', 'I')f i thought I had a more than decent chance to get away with it, I shoot you for being such a bitch.

[NotMyBlood]

I can't put into words how deeply sorry I truly am for that comment. It goes beyond comprehension that I would even consider typing those hateful, threatning, disgusting words. With time , understanding and compassion, maybe we can move forward from here to a better message board world.

[I_Like_Plants]

Ahh good old Bucky....

In the Evil Empire, if you're one of the lucky one out of millions to win a million bucks in the lottery, you get a yearly stipend of about $30k a year.

In Belgium, if you exist, there's a basic living allowance that amounts to about $30k a year. You can work, or just exist.

Now I say apply the Belgian method, with tons of emphasis on birth control....

I myself nominate my own family as the voluntary human extinction movement poster family.... 2 parents and 5 of us kids. What we kids experienced in the fall from middle class to skinny, ribs-sticking-out starvation and sheer survival has apparently made all 5 of us unwilling to procreate at all. 4 out of the 5 of us are married, but no kids among any of us. This is about the same reaction the Hawaiians, and a lot of native groups, had to the onslaught of Western society - that this was no world to bring a child into, and the typical population dieoff was 90%. I say it's time for we Westerns to do our own population dieoff of 90%, and encourage the rest of the world to do so also, through simply enlightening them as to how fucked we and the planet are if we don't. Just plain old pure dispair will do it. If we start now, we may be able to do this through birth control rather than having to go through the usual plagues, war, canniballism etc that falling Empires go through.

And life like the 1880s, no way. We'll rocket downward so fast we won't even experience it, on our way down to late-stage Easter Island.

[Aaron]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NotMyBlood', 'I') can't put into words how deeply sorry I truly am for that comment. It goes beyond comprehension that I would even consider typing those hateful, threatening, disgusting words. With time , understanding and compassion, maybe we can move forward from here to a better message board world.