[gt1370a]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Vexed', 'G')T wrote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')o what am I supposed to take away from this? There are violent people with a culture that glorifies and perpetuates that violence - if I would only welcome them into my neighborhood, give them half my salary, and put their kids in school with my younger siblings, then everything would work out great and the cycle would be broken? Get real man.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gt1370a', 'I')f you have a statistic that shows that most people file for bankruptcy due to illness, injury, or divorce, I would like to see it. I bet *most* people file for bankruptcy because they were living beyond their means and it caught up to them, i.e., they were stupid.

But why can't you people acknowledge that if someone goes through life making bad decisions and taking the easy way out just for instant gratification (i.e., being lazy and stupid), that it will have consequences?

[gt1370a]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('actionreplay', '
')What living in Europe for 30 years has taught me is that we Europeans like our social programs. We consider them very important. Maybe that's because we're used to them, maybe they are good, bad, indifferent - it's how we think.

[actionreplay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('LadyRuby', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('actionreplay', 'W')hat speaking to, working with and being related to many Americans, plus various visits to the US, has taught me, is that the US is very different. The view, whether or not you agree with it, is that you go to the US as an immigrant to give it your best shot, work hard, and try and suceed, and don't try and ask the govt for help.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gt1370a', 'H')ey, I guess it's still fun to argue though. And like with my friend in Germany there, you try to make a compelling argument, agree to disagree and buy each other a beer.

[thuja]

The real issue being asked here is how big should the government safety net for the poor be? Its not a question of a safety net versus no safety net. Europe has a larger safety net and thus higher taxes while the US has a smaller safety net and lower taxes. Europe encourages egalitarianism while the US encourages incentive and ambition. Both systems have their dark sides as well- Europe's can lead to a lack of motivation while the US' system can lead to greed and hyper-individualism. Hatred of the poor can occur when certain US members believe that poverty is solely due to a lack of incentive/ambition and not to factors beyond the poor's control (i.e environment, illness, lack of resources, etc.) Just look at gt's entries. He pretty much sums that philosophy up.

[gt1370a]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', 'T')he real issue being asked here is how big should the government safety net for the poor be? Its not a question of a safety net versus no safety net. Europe has a larger safety net and thus higher taxes while the US has a smaller safety net and lower taxes. Europe encourages egalitarianism while the US encourages incentive and ambition. Both systems have their dark sides as well- Europe's can lead to a lack of motivation while the US' system can lead to greed and hyper-individualism. Hatred of the poor can occur when certain US members believe that poverty is solely due to a lack of incentive/ambition and not to factors beyond the poor's control (i.e environment, illness, lack of resources, etc.) Just look at gt's entries. He pretty much sums that philosophy up.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gt1370a', 'T')hese people are not poor because of their conditions. They have sufficient resources that they could do something with their lives if they had the intelligence and motivation to do so. How do I know this? Because there are many success stories out there about people who have done just that.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gt1370a', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', 'T')he real issue being asked here is how big should the government safety net for the poor be? Its not a question of a safety net versus no safety net. Europe has a larger safety net and thus higher taxes while the US has a smaller safety net and lower taxes. Europe encourages egalitarianism while the US encourages incentive and ambition. Both systems have their dark sides as well- Europe's can lead to a lack of motivation while the US' system can lead to greed and hyper-individualism. Hatred of the poor can occur when certain US members believe that poverty is solely due to a lack of incentive/ambition and not to factors beyond the poor's control (i.e environment, illness, lack of resources, etc.) Just look at gt's entries. He pretty much sums that philosophy up.

[gary_malcolm]

Half of us are, by definition, dumber than the other half. We're slower, less likely to succeed, sure to be taken in by every crook, department store sale and preacher that comes around looking for money. What used to pass for community, that protected our meager interests, has faded off into disconnected, wandering suburbia. When our boss and television tell us the facts... we believe, after all they're the only authority we have left that we can trust.

And you tell us we deserve to be abused, trodden on, and thrown to the wolves because we were unlucky with the gene pool, or Mom drank too much in the second trimester. Maybe we deserve what we get.

But that doesn't do anything to change the fact that you who prey on or just plain ignore the weak, the poor and the disadvantaged are made small and horrible by your lack of humanity. Maids, streetsweepers, welfare recipients and ChinaMart greeters are people just like you and me. Believe me when I say if the day comes when your company sends your job overseas, or your wife has cancer or a flood swallows your house... well, we'll just see who steps up with a hand to lift you and yours out of desperation.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gary_malcolm', 'H')alf of us are, by definition, dumber than the other half. We're slower, less likely to succeed, sure to be taken in by every crook, department store sale and preacher that comes around looking for money. What used to pass for community, that protected our meager interests, has faded off into disconnected, wandering suburbia. When our boss and television tell us the facts... we believe, after all they're the only authority we have left that we can trust.

And you tell us we deserve to be abused, trodden on, and thrown to the wolves because we were unlucky with the gene pool, or Mom drank too much in the second trimester. Maybe we deserve what we get.

But that doesn't do anything to change the fact that you who prey on or just plain ignore the weak, the poor and the disadvantaged are made small and horrible by your lack of humanity. Maids, streetsweepers, welfare recipients and ChinaMart greeters are people just like you and me. Believe me when I say if the day comes when your company sends your job overseas, or your wife has cancer or a flood swallows your house... well, we'll just see who steps up with a hand to lift you and yours out of desperation.

[DigitalCubano]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gt1370a', 'T')hese people are not poor because of their conditions. They have sufficient resources that they could do something with their lives if they had the intelligence and motivation to do so. How do I know this? Because there are many success stories out there about people who have done just that.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gt1370a', '
')
If you have a statistic that shows that most people file for bankruptcy due to illness, injury, or divorce, I would like to see it.

[thuja]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gt1370a', '
')we surveyed 1,771 personal bankruptcy filers in five federal courts and subsequently completed in-depth interviews with 931 of them. About half cited medical causes,

[gt1370a]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gt1370a', '
')we surveyed 1,771 personal bankruptcy filers in five federal courts and subsequently completed in-depth interviews with 931 of them. About half cited medical causes,

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gt1370a', 'W')hat's their reason?

[thuja]

and forget the US poor, how about almost the entire population of the third world- living subsistence lifestyles and portions succumbing to starvation or being slaughtered in resource wars- they're just stupid and lazy too right? If they only had gotten out of that thatched hut and taken the job as an oil rig operator with Exxon when they were coming through the village. But no, they wanted to sit in the hut and chew on grass sandwiches...stupid lazy third worlder!!

[PrairieMule]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', 'a')nd forget the US poor, how about almost the entire population of the third world- living subsistence lifestyles and portions succumbing to starvation or being slaughtered in resource wars- they're just stupid and lazy too right? If they only had gotten out of that thatched hut and taken the job as an oil rig operator with Exxon when they were coming through the village. But no, they wanted to sit in the hut and chew on grass sandwiches...stupid lazy third worlder!!

[gt1370a]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', 'a')nd forget the US poor, how about almost the entire population of the third world- living subsistence lifestyles and portions succumbing to starvation or being slaughtered in resource wars- they're just stupid and lazy too right? If they only had gotten out of that thatched hut and taken the job as an oil rig operator with Exxon when they were coming through the village. But no, they wanted to sit in the hut and chew on grass sandwiches...stupid lazy third worlder!!

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gt1370a', 'T')his was never about third-world conditions. My point was there are opportunities in America. What you do with them is up to you. If you waste them, then expect the federal government to bail you out, expect resentment.