[bobcousins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', 'T')he one I find most remarkable is that Americans have been trained like monkeys to hate the poor. There are many arguments why, such as it's the land of opportunity etc.

[LadyRuby]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', 'W')e know that the USA is an exceptional country, in that it has various common behaviours that are considered exceptional in other countries including most other Western nations.

The one I find most remarkable is that Americans have been trained like monkeys to hate the poor. There are many arguments why, such as it's the land of opportunity etc. But in a capitalist ponzi scheme you have to have a lot of poor people otherwise nothing gets done. If people are poor they are blamed for being poor. It's a great system, the rich hate the poor, and they get the middle class to hate the poor, and also get the poor to hate the poor. Remarkable. And then to top it off it call's itself a Christian nation, and if there was one topic that ol' Jesus used to rant on and on about it was the meak and the poor and how they would inherit the earth. Bizarre.

To be an American you need to simultaneously believe contradictory things. Then to top it off, you have people burning out trying not to be poor and hating themselves while they are poor, then you make them pay for health-care. Brilliant.

[perplexd]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nuhax', 'F')orty-six percent of all poor households actually own their own homes.

[Paul64]

I agree with those responding that we don't actually hate the poor; we just do our best to ignore them. Me, guilty as charged; I have to admit sadly I don't have a huge compassion for the poor here in the U.S.; most of them get by ok and have more than enough material comforts and watch plenty of TV. Many are grossly obese, unhealthy, and personally helpless. I don't blame them for the situation and culture they have been born into, or subscribe to the idea that they can 'pick themselves up' and get to a better situation. All in all it's quite sad, but giving them welfare funds does nothing to help in the long run.

The 'poor' people in this world I have a true affinity for (if you can call them 'poor'), despite a limited association, are the remaining indigenous peoples of the third world. In Peru I had the privilege of being exposed to the culture and music of the indians in the small village of Chivay. These indians live lives more balanced in mind, body, and spirit than almost all of us first-worlders rich or poor, have a unique culture and a wonderful spirit, amazing music and dance, and the smiles on their faces told a thousand words and deeply moved me.

Thinking about the encroachment on these fast-disappearing villages and peoples by heartless mining and other first-world interests breaks my heart far more than the tragic scenes from New Orleans.

[thuja]

My job is to work with the poor and those with disabilities. Yesterday I stood in line with one of my friends for over two hours with 80 other needy people so he could get a bag of groceries. My friend is old and slightly disabled and lives on 564 $ a month plus 60 $ in food stamps he gets from the govt. He is one of the lucky ones because he was labeled with having a disability so he can receive this paltry check once a month. He survives by going to food banks, soup kitchens and leaving the heat off at his appartment so his electricity bill isn't too high.

The working class have it maybe worse than he does. They have to work their asses off and still don't have enough to pay for health or dental insurance which comes for free if you are destitute. If they have children, they are in a hole they can't get out of. They need to pay for larger living quarters and spend extras for clothing, and more food. Many of these folks are racking up massive credit card debt and many file for bankruptcy (increasingly difficult here).

The middle class have it just a bit better but are squeezed by the cost of mortgage payments (increasingly high due to housing bubble), health care costs, student loans, energy bills, etc. The middle class is not saving and many go into credit card debt as well.

This leaves the professional class (upper middle) and the wealthy on the top. There is an increasing division between the bottom and the top and social mobility is getting increasingly difficult. With the advent of PO and as costs for everything goes up and jobs dry up, the struggling working and middle class will simply fall into the ranks of the poor as they just can't make ends meet.

Those who "hate" the poor, or just ignored them, will experience first hand what its like to have difficulty getting food on the table.

[1966]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('LadyRuby', 'W')hy are New Zealanders obsessed with asking stupid questions about Americans?

[spudbuddy]

on the other hand, how stupid a question was it, really?
Our media-addicted world saw those New Orleans pix on tv.
Everyone knows anyone who had the means just drove out of town.
There's a dividing line well illustrated.
But anyhow-
As far as hatred goes:
Corporations hate the cost of labor (we can hardly imagine how much, unless we live in boardrooms)
and poor people work for wages.
They do not cash in stocks, bonds.
The majority of them are not old enough to vote, or legally own property.

If you are a wage earner, just imagine some executive sitting in an office somewhere, examining the cost of your paycheck, and really loathing that expense. Kinda gives you the heebie jeebies, doesn't it?
Sorta like Bela Lugosi comes to life for real, and wears a suit.
Notice how much cuter vampires are getting on tv these days? They all look like pop stars. A socially viable concept.

I suppose poverty is a valid topic on this website. Lord knows it is a growing fact of life, and it wouldn't be a bad idea if people knew the real reasons why.

I have to quote this:
In 1988 Jonathan Kozol wrote an amazing book called "Rachel and Her Children" in which he lurks around places like the St. Martinique hotel in NYC...interviewing the single parent families he found there.
These homeless families were put up in the hotel, because that is how the authorities decided they could house them. At the time (17 years ago) this form of housing cost the municipal government approx. $2600 a month per hotel room.
At the time, an apartment suitable to house a family cost less than a third of this amount. But that third...was deemed "unaffordable" by the powers that be. They were far happier with the "whip the puppy" set of policies they'd set up.
One of the women living in the hotel with her children had this to say:

"Yeah, they all get together, all them pop stars organize and record some song, and send the profits off to Africa 'cause they saw some pictures of starving children...well, ain't my children starving enough? Ain't they black enough? God bless America for being so generous!"

America doesn't need the rest of the planet to throw daggers. What dwells within its own borders does just fine.
For a look at a possible future...read Jack London's "People of the Abyss."
This will tell you what the east end of London looked like in 1904, at the height of the English Empire, the very apex of its power and wealth.
America hardly invented the concept.

[LadyRuby]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('1966', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('LadyRuby', 'W')hy are New Zealanders obsessed with asking stupid questions about Americans?

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('LadyRuby', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('1966', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('LadyRuby', 'W')hy are New Zealanders obsessed with asking stupid questions about Americans?

[Tyler_JC]

The heavy Socialist leaning of this website never ceases to amaze me.

How about I ask the question, "Why do Europeans feel the need to steal money from productive people in order to give free stuff to nonproductive people?"

It is not my personal responsibility to make sure that someone 1000 miles away in a Chicago ghetto has a place to sleep every night.

It might be the responsibility of the city of Chicago, but it is definitly NOT my problem.

I oppose all federal welfare schemes.

State welfare programs might be more acceptable because at least it helps the people within an specific area.

We have, or at least used to have, a strong belief in limiting the power of a federal government in favor of more local control.

To each his own, right?

My town takes care of its poor, yours should do the same.

Peak Oil will mean the end of suburban living and the middle class will either dieout or return to the cities or move to smaller farming communities.

The current problems are a result of the white flight to the suburbs. When the poor are out in the open instead of "over there", we will see more charity.

But stealing from my paycheck in order to "help" some other random person in another country (as I consider Chicago to be) is wasteful, unconstitutional, and immoral.

[Vexed]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hy do Americans hate poor people?

[jato]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') oppose all federal welfare schemes.

[Trab]

Tyler's rant has some merit, but it falls short, I think. Socialist or capitalist... it doesn't really matter. The main difference is who is benefitting from the cash that the state takes from the people. It's wealth redistribution either way. I feel no better about that portion of my tax money that goes to corporate subsidies versus that which goes to welfare.

The whole concept of a 'safety net' like welfare is quite modern, and is probably only valid in a scenarios where there is both excess energy/capacity to allow people to survive without working, and a culture where a large number of people aren't forced to provide for themselves (i.e. subsistence farming, etc.).

In a low-energy future, one would contribute to the common good or be forced out of the community. There were no welfare queens in the middle ages.

[LadyRuby]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', 'Y')up, that was me! The reason I ask, is America sets itself up as "the leader of the free world" and as a citizen of one of the smaller countries I'm saying, "okay, what are you offering us?" If the USA was isolationist we would not care what the USA gets up to, but since it's not, we do..

[gt1370a]

I'll tell you why Americans hate poor people. This is the land of opportunity. You have to be unimaginably goddam lazy and stupid not to be able to make a comfortable living here. And then people who are actually that lazy and stupid expect the goverment (funded by the rest of us) to bail them out every time they fuck up. "I didn't study in high school, raise the minimum wage so I can pay my cable bill!" "I was too stupid to evacuate the Keys even after I saw what happened in New Orleans, give me food and shelter!" I resent that. I really resent the lack of personal responsibility and the sense of entitlement that people feel. Maybe hate is too strong a word. But I resent it, and I fear the implications that that has when resources become scarce and times get tough.

By the way, the "average" person living below the poverty line in this country still has: a vehicle, a residence, cable TV, and air conditioning. I was poor enough in college that I wore a pair of shoes that my mexican neighbor threw away because they were better than the ones I had, although I never starved or anything. So, it's not like I'm exactly Barbara Bush or something, I know what it's like not to have any money. But it's acceptable to be poor if you're a student, nobody looks down on them.

[thuja]

we got some poor people haters out there- put out your fist and say yeah! I got mine!

[nuhax]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gt1370a', 'I')'ll tell you why Americans hate poor people. This is the land of opportunity. You have to be unimaginably goddam lazy and stupid not to be able to make a comfortable living here.

[Vexed]

Why Americans Hate Welfare
By Robert C. Lieberman

A curious paradox defines the politics of welfare in the United States. On the one hand, we are an extraordinarily generous and forgiving people. In 1998 Americans donated more than $170 billion to charity, and we have proven open to giving just about anyone (even, say, a philandering president) a second chance. Americans are willing, even enthusiastic, supporters of vast social programs aimed at protecting individuals from what Franklin Roosevelt called "the hazards and vicissitudes of life."

On the other hand, Americans are more likely to be poor than citizens of other industrial countries, and American government does less than other advanced nations to shield its citizens from poverty. If we're so generous, just why do Americans hate welfare?

This puzzle is at the heart of Martin Gilens's compelling book, and his answer can be summed up in a word: race. Americans dislike the programs most commonly called "welfare"-- especially Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) and its successor, Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF)--not because they are too individualistic to believe in public social provision or too self-interested to pay for it, but because they associate these programs with African Americans. Gilens, a Yale political scientist, traces this connection in the public mind to the mid- to late 1960s, when urban violence drew the spotlight of the national media to ghetto poverty...

Why Americans Hate the Welfare System

Why I Don't Hate Why Americans Hate Welfare

[LadyRuby]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nuhax', 'M')y idea of welfare if you are out of work and have no income:

1. Savings.
2. Sell stuff.
3. Get help from immediate family (mom, dad, brother etc.).
4. Private debt (credit cards, loans).
5. Extended Family (grandparents, uncle etc.)
6. Friends.
7. Organization you are member of (ie church).
8. Other private organizations (Salvation Army etc.)
9. Student loans, school training if you can't get a job.
10. City government programs. (temporary, a few months max)
11. State government programs. (temporary)

There should be no Federal welfare.

As to Calvinism, I think the "protestant work ethic" is a small part of the American history/psyche but much more importantly America is mostly a country of immigrants who were not Calvinist but came here because they were already poor and expected to rely on themselves, not the government, to better their own lives.