[onlooker]

Well in fact, the skeptics should take note because Care is precisely describing the makeup of where currencies are headed and it fits into this model which the planet desperately needs of a currency or currencies that may not be able to be taxed and which does not afford the opportunity for centralized money issuance. As Ibon asked it seems these cryptocurrencies are thus not easily monitored.

So, this in fact again as Care said a Internet currency in its distributed local non central aspect. As for Lending and Debt, if people are not taxed on these online funds then presumably they do not need lending to acquire "money". Their funds are personal and available only to them. This also lends itself to this asset/capital based form of lending when people or entities wish to engage in it. Collateral is held or offered as guarantee in the lending process and loans are meticulously accounted for by the actual wealth held by all. So no endless funny money printing/lending. And so we can start to get an actual truthful picture of values and worth of entities and assets rather than the distorted one now because of this rampant currency creation and lending. So, this is certainly a great step in the right direction.

[evilgenius]

I issue anybody who wants to read it a warning about crypto currencies. They are a false panacea. The most dangerous thing about them is that they are not linked to risk taking, in the form of debt. The fact that debt exists for something substantial provides for issuance of more debt based upon the future expectation of the repatriation of the money loaned plus interest. Because there is a legitimate expectation that people will pay back their loans more money can be loaned based upon that expectation. The supply doesn't grow because of coin mining. The money doesn't move around strictly as a substitute for bartering. Capital is allocated based upon need and opportunity. The great thing about fiat money is that it is linked in that way. The size of the money supply, therefore, is linked to the amount of either need or want within society. The problems outlined in this thread mostly pertain to how the size of the money supply mostly relies upon want rather than need. As such, there is an inherent disconnect between activity and repatriation. People take on too much debt without corresponding return and the burden of it actually slows them down financially.

The will to power stradles both need and want. It recognizes what a person considers fulfills them, in the form of purpose. It allows people to borrow in order to achieve their purpose. It's not the fault of the idea that people will use it to indebt themselves for trinkets or a fleeting romance with illusion. The idea's best intention is to provide people who see a profit making opportunity with the means to capitalize upon that opportunity. The will to power is best described as a means for entrepreneurs to go into business.

The problems in America greatly coincide with the development of credit cards. Not just cards, but a mentality that debt is for fun. Those stem out of a need to fund a system of largess toward elites who the system had to whore to in order to gain control over the political natures they came from. In so doing they prevent resources from being used by the people from whose countries the resources are extracted, and, instead, used by the consumers back home.

[onlooker]

Good thoughts Evil. However, I intrinsically disagree with the bedrock core of your argument. Risk taking is another anachronism of the age of expansion and growth. We are into the age of contraction whereby risk taking and profit even should become obsolete. Yes, I know the hard core Capitalists will wince at what I am saying. But, hear me out. The age of contraction will be characterizes by scarcity and real need. The whole idea is to set us in balance with nature and with the resources, so that nobody will be in need. A collective effort is needed rather than lone wolves trying to secure their survival and enhance their well being. This mentality is counterproductive for humanity to maintain some semblance of coherence and harmonious living. Capitalism via the profit motive and risk taking is inherently lone wolf maneuvers and indulgences. An effort to share and care for one another is not consistent with this maverick mentality.
So cryptocurrencies offer a right step towards a society whereby lending and risk taking will be bought under control. You will lose your money if you gamble/lend it away. People will become much more circumspect with the use of their funds, as they will not have the System or Borrowing to bail them out. The whole idea is to set frugality and wise use of limited funds as a high priority among everyone. This cannot be accomplished if we maintain remnants of this insatiable greed oriented system and its elements which encourage this mentality.

[kanon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', 'N')ice thread, I enjoyed reading it.

It was particularly of interest to me, since I recently swallowed the red pill, about money. Specifically with crypto currencies and the block chain. I believe your arguments about who should control the money, and how it can be manipulated to achieve various outcomes, will become irrelevant. As irrelevant as people arguing how we are going to fit a million horses in NYC in 1911.

No one should control money. Just as Separation of Church and State led to greater freedoms and prosperity. The upcoming Separation of State and Currency will lead to increased monetary freedom for the entire world. . . . No one will be able to stop, divert or confiscate, transactions between consenting parties. Each individual will be their own bank with much greater security of your currency. Face it, if you trust someone else with your money, they will eventually steal it, they may even do it in such a clever way you don't even notice it (think inflation).

* * * *
We used to have a BOLD Prediction thread, so here is mine:
In less than five years the current monetary system will be completely disrupted. Banks, credit unions, government currencies, and most jobs involving financial middlemen, will become significantly less important than today . . . .

[radon1]

Nobody is controlling the money. Who is?

[careinke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('radon1', 'N')obody is controlling the money. Who is?

[kanon]

I appears that the global elites are two steps ahead of the reformers. The scenario in this article is for some crisis in 2018 to open the door to the SDR international money system, controlled by the IMF. The Economic End Game Continues. Ironic that the bitcoin advocates are pawns in the game.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')When The Economist in 1988 called for a global currency to launch in 2018, they were perhaps not aware of the exact form the destructor would take. Even in 2014 I was not fully convinced we had enough evidence on what that unit of measurement would be or look like. Today, it is clear as crystal — the one world currency system will not only be a cashless system, but it will also be based on digital blockchain technology.

As I examined in my article ‘The Globalist One World Currency Will Look A Lot Like Bitcoin,’ while some politicians and banking moguls publicly attack blockchain-based products like Bitcoin or Etherium, in the background they are actually heavily invested in these systems and are even building their own. With central banking mascots like Ben Bernanke becoming keynote speakers at blockchain conferences, it is not exactly an elusive secret that the global banks love blockchain tech.
. . . .
What is interesting to me is that even in the highly vigilant world of alternative economics, which is well aware of the trend towards a global currency system, blockchain systems are still revered as if they will save us from central bank tyranny. Very few people have noticed that The Economist call for a 2018 one world monetary framework has arrived slightly early; it has been right under our noses for several years. With blockchain-based methods of exchange, a replacement structure for the dollar and all other national currencies is not very far away.

[evilgenius]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'G')ood thoughts Evil. However, I intrinsically disagree with the bedrock core of your argument. Risk taking is another anachronism of the age of expansion and growth. We are into the age of contraction whereby risk taking and profit even should become obsolete. Yes, I know the hard core Capitalists will wince at what I am saying. But, hear me out. The age of contraction will be characterizes by scarcity and real need. The whole idea is to set us in balance with nature and with the resources, so that nobody will be in need. A collective effort is needed rather than lone wolves trying to secure their survival and enhance their well being. This mentality is counterproductive for humanity to maintain some semblance of coherence and harmonious living. Capitalism via the profit motive and risk taking is inherently lone wolf maneuvers and indulgences. An effort to share and care for one another is not consistent with this maverick mentality.
So cryptocurrencies offer a right step towards a society whereby lending and risk taking will be bought under control. You will lose your money if you gamble/lend it away. People will become much more circumspect with the use of their funds, as they will not have the System or Borrowing to bail them out. The whole idea is to set frugality and wise use of limited funds as a high priority among everyone. This cannot be accomplished if we maintain remnants of this insatiable greed oriented system and its elements which encourage this mentality.

[vtsnowedin]

" They pretend to pay us so we pretend to work"

[onlooker]

Interesting Evil but the point is not to achieve super efficiency or productivity, the point is to have an economic system that will attend to EVERYONE'S needs (not wants). One must exit from the Capitalistic mindset and imagine the world vastly different. This brave new world will require precisely that hoarding in times of particular scarcity, it will require unprecedented amount of cooperation and a genuine caring between people and sharing between them. This is because scarcity will be a constant menance and so resources should be meted out fairly and equally among all. And no room for wants but only needs. Perhaps I am going a bit beyond the timeline the rest of you are and am focusing on a truly collapsed world economy and situation and how our species should deal with that. Oh and V, for all the dysfunctions of Communist systems in the 20th century, how many people within those systems truly starved or were truly destitute.? Contrast that with the homeless situation in the US and the dire situation of many in the poorer countries. I am not advocating Communism but neither for a second do I believe Capitalism will function adequately for most in a Contracting and downward spiraling world and regional Economy.

[GHung]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '&')quot; They pretend to pay us so we pretend to work"

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', '.')..the point is not to achieve super efficiency or productivity, the point is to have an economic system that will attend to EVERYONE'S needs (not wants).

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GHung', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '&')quot; They pretend to pay us so we pretend to work"

[onlooker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GHung', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '&')quot; They pretend to pay us so we pretend to work"

[evilgenius]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'I')nteresting Evil but the point is not to achieve super efficiency or productivity, the point is to have an economic system that will attend to EVERYONE'S needs (not wants). One must exit from the Capitalistic mindset and imagine the world vastly different. This brave new world will require precisely that hoarding in times of particular scarcity, it will require unprecedented amount of cooperation and a genuine caring between people and sharing between them. This is because scarcity will be a constant menance and so resources should be meted out fairly and equally among all. And no room for wants but only needs. Perhaps I am going a bit beyond the timeline the rest of you are and am focusing on a truly collapsed world economy and situation and how our species should deal with that. Oh and V, for all the dysfunctions of Communist systems in the 20th century, how many people within those systems truly starved or were truly destitute.? Contrast that with the homeless situation in the US and the dire situation of many in the poorer countries. I am not advocating Communism but neither for a second do I believe Capitalism will function adequately for most in a Contracting and downward spiraling world and regional Economy.

[onlooker]

Very good thoughts as usual Evil. Now as for the question of where our modern technological civilization is headed, that is an open question. However, I think the preponderance of data and evidence would suggest we are headed for a rather steep fall. So again my concern is how to liberate ourselves from the presumptions and the basic premise that our advanced industrialization and technology wiill endure and by extension the Capitalistic system which flourishes in this environment.

My interest in thus to debunk all the narratives that contain in one way or the other this basic assumption. The age of Contraction will be radically different than the age of Growth. In some ways our economic systems will have to function in a diametrically opposed manner. Many are already giving thought to this and a form of Restorative Ecologically balanced living in being touted now by increasing numbers of people. Of course at the root of this transition will be our Economic system.

It is quite apparent to me that the elite currently of this planet seek to perpetuate business as usual. So you see it in the toothless climate accords, in hardly any mention of the energy predicament, in cursory references to our environmental degradation etc. The Corporations still seek the highest rate of return. And Debt has taken on monstrous proportions. And so we are now existing in an extreme state of denial reflected by how easily we lend money out and in fact create it. The faith in currency is Now dangerously precarious as currencies and prices have so strayed from any valid connection with real worth. And all now threatening to catastrophically implode. What will be left behind after this explosion? The hope is that a framework that stresses living within your means, living ecologically sustainably, not burdening future generations with obligations in an uncertain world. And above all a human environment of mutual aid and yes sharing whereby the consensus is we must all look out for one another as the difficult demands of the new age require it.

[kanon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', '
')* * * *
It is quite apparent to me that the elite currently of this planet seek to perpetuate business as usual. So you see it in the toothless climate accords, in hardly any mention of the energy predicament, in cursory references to our environmental degradation etc. The Corporations still seek the highest rate of return. And Debt has taken on monstrous proportions. And so we are now existing in an extreme state of denial reflected by how easily we lend money out and in fact create it. The faith in currency is Now dangerously precarious as currencies and prices have so strayed from any valid connection with real worth. And all now threatening to catastrophically implode. What will be left behind after this explosion? The hope is that a framework that stresses living within your means, living ecologically sustainably, not burdening future generations with obligations in an uncertain world. And above all a human environment of mutual aid and yes sharing whereby the consensus is we must all look out for one another as the difficult demands of the new age require it.

[vtsnowedin]

Why not just return to sound financial practices under the current system?

[kanon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'W')hy not just return to sound financial practices under the current system?

[vtsnowedin]

Frankly I think the "Economic End Game Continues" piece is a load of horse feathers. China , Russia and India can swap goods in yaun or Rubles all they want but as long as the USA imports seven million barrels a day they will pay for them in dollars.