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Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: The Stanley Meyers story and supposed 'water car'

Unread postby burtonridr » Sun 15 Jun 2008, 21:11:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('burtonridr', ' ') Electrolysis and running a car on water/electricity is real though.


But it is more efficient to just use the electricity to run the car.

2nd law tells you that in spades.


If I were worried about efficiency and had the money to spend on converting my car engine to an electric engine i would. True the electrolysis process is not very efficient, but its cheap.

I can convert my car to run on hydrogen produced by electrolysis for a few hundred dollars. Then charge the battery every day or two for the price of 1kw, which is only like $0.002 in my area. 1 battery holds

Show me a way I can convert my motor to an electric motor for a few hundred dollars....
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Re: The Stanley Meyers story and supposed 'water car'

Unread postby burtonridr » Sun 15 Jun 2008, 21:14:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('freddyseven', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'I')t probably had a lot of batteries inside so it was pretty much just an electric vehicle with an internal combustion engine burning hydrogen instead of an electric motor.


You have to put in THREE TIMES as much electricity as the Hydrogen equivalent of the electrolysis output, you loose power bad.

I would run the car on batteries, then at least you can get the equivalent of 2 dollars a gallon gasoline.


Again, how much would it cost to swap in an electric engine into your car?

I dont have that kind of money
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Re: Water-fuel car unveiled in Japan

Unread postby Pops » Sun 15 Jun 2008, 21:30:06

Yea Merle was quite the profit back in the '70's:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')here's a big, brown cloud in the city,
And the countryside's a sin.
An' the price of life is too high to give up,
Gotta come down again.
When the world wide war is over and done,
And the dream of peace comes true.
We'll all be drinkin' free bubble-ubb,
Eatin' that rainbow stew.
When they find out how to burn water,
And the gasoline car is gone.
When an airplane flies without any fuel,
And the satellite heats our home.

One of these days when the air clears up,
And the sun comes shinin' through.
We'll all be drinkin' free bubble-ubb,
An' eatin' that rainbow stew.
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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Re: Water-fuel car unveiled in Japan

Unread postby Armageddon » Sun 15 Jun 2008, 22:05:12

Since the car already has a generator, why can't it be duel purposed ? Charge the battery and crack the hydrogen ?
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Re: Water-fuel car unveiled in Japan

Unread postby Pfish » Sun 15 Jun 2008, 22:09:39

The infamous Flux Capacitator....I love it!
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Re: Water-fuel car unveiled in Japan

Unread postby MonteQuest » Sun 15 Jun 2008, 23:02:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Armageddon', 'S')ince the car already has a generator, why can't it be duel purposed ? Charge the battery and crack the hydrogen ?


And use the hydrogen to power the generator?

That's perpetual motion and impossible.

You cannot get more energy out of a system than you put in.

1st law of thermodynamics.
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Re: Water-fuel car unveiled in Japan

Unread postby kokoda » Sun 15 Jun 2008, 23:08:04

They claim all that is needed is a litre of water with no other external energy source.

This could be the solution to all the world's energy woes. We could run just about everything on water.

Seriously though ... I am sure that a lot was lost in translation.

No doubt a battery is required to provide the power to split the hydrogen from the water. So much energy would be lost in this process that you would only get a fraction of the total energy back from the hydrogen.

Despite all the hoopla Hydrogen fuel cells are less effective than batteries as mediums for storing energy.
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Re: Water-fuel car unveiled in Japan

Unread postby Armageddon » Sun 15 Jun 2008, 23:33:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Armageddon', 'S')ince the car already has a generator, why can't it be duel purposed ? Charge the battery and crack the hydrogen ?


And use the hydrogen to power the generator?

That's perpetual motion and impossible.

You cannot get more energy out of a system than you put in.

1st law of thermodynamics.



Why can't the battery be used as the energy source to crack the hydrogen while the car is running ?
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Re: Water-fuel car unveiled in Japan

Unread postby Armageddon » Mon 16 Jun 2008, 00:15:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Drifter', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Armageddon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Armageddon', 'S')ince the car already has a generator, why can't it be duel purposed ? Charge the battery and crack the hydrogen ?


And use the hydrogen to power the generator?

That's perpetual motion and impossible.

You cannot get more energy out of a system than you put in.

1st law of thermodynamics.



Why can't the battery be used as the energy source to crack the hydrogen while the car is running ?


How quickly would the battery drain, and what would recharge the battery?



The generator, lol. Believe me, I don't believe in this theory, I am just wondering if a car can crack the hydrogen while it is running by using its battery and generator.
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Re: Water-fuel car unveiled in Japan

Unread postby MonteQuest » Mon 16 Jun 2008, 00:52:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Armageddon', ' ')Why can't the battery be used as the energy source to crack the hydrogen while the car is running ?


How did the battery get it's energy? From being charged by the hydrogen running the engine's generator.

How did the engine get it's hydrogen? From the generator.

You cannot get more energy out of a system than you put into it.

That would be creating energy and violate 1st law.

Energy can neither be created or destroyed. It can only be tranformed from one form to another, and always at a lost of usable energy.

2nd law.
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Re: Another Car runs on water hoax

Unread postby Starvid » Mon 16 Jun 2008, 01:09:59

Don't even try with Armageddon.

He's completely off the deep side. No use my friend.
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Re: Water-fuel car unveiled in Japan

Unread postby directinfo » Mon 16 Jun 2008, 02:13:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Armageddon', ' ')Why can't the battery be used as the energy source to crack the hydrogen while the car is running ?


How did the battery get it's energy? From being charged by the hydrogen running the engine's generator.

How did the engine get it's hydrogen? From the generator.

You cannot get more energy out of a system than you put into it.

That would be creating energy and violate 1st law.

Energy can neither be created or destroyed. It can only be tranformed from one form to another, and always at a lost of usable energy.

2nd law.


Thanks very much, Montequest and my friends at Peak Oil dot com.

It never fails. Every time I get the slightest frustration with mainstream media, I come here. Every time I have the slightest doubt about an energy related issue, I go to the PO forums. Better than the oil drum because it is more dynamic (but nothing against the oil drum, masters at their craft as well).

Thank you guys, you always tell it like it is and you leave the masses KO'd like a has been boxer going up against Peak Oil Godzilla.

It must be really tiring for you engineers, physicists, electricians and other analysts to hear the same arguments over and over and over.

Cheers to you!

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Re: Water-fuel car unveiled in Japan

Unread postby kublikhan » Mon 16 Jun 2008, 03:06:21

The oil barrel is half-full.
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Re: Another Car runs on water hoax

Unread postby Last_Laff » Mon 16 Jun 2008, 07:49:07

Cars runs on water (r) for dummies.
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Re: Another Car runs on water hoax

Unread postby Judgie » Mon 16 Jun 2008, 09:01:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('idiom', 'Q')uick, find all the clean wate ryou can, and we will destroy it in cars.

At least we won't have the starvation side-effect of ethanol.


It will be replaced with the de-hydration effect of "business as usual at all costs" stupidity.
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Re: Another Car runs on water hoax

Unread postby Judgie » Mon 16 Jun 2008, 09:05:08

***************************
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Will this curtial some of PO's catostophic future?

Unread postby allenwrench » Mon 16 Jun 2008, 17:41:29

Will a car that burns water curtail some of PO's catastrophic future?

http://www.reuters.com/news/video?videoId=84561
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Re: Will this curtial some of PO's catostophic future?

Unread postby Jack » Mon 16 Jun 2008, 17:48:21

No, per the second law of thermodynamics.
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Re: Will this curtial some of PO's catostophic future?

Unread postby Madpaddy » Mon 16 Jun 2008, 17:50:29

allenwrench. I hope you are wearing a flak jacket and helmet.
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Re: Will this curtial some of PO's catostophic future?

Unread postby Sellis1012 » Mon 16 Jun 2008, 17:53:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('allenwrench', 'W')ill a car that burns water curtail some of PO's catastrophic future?

http://www.reuters.com/news/video?videoId=84561


Right, I had a rocket like that when I was a kid back in the 70s. Add water, pump and release. I believe this was posted somewhere else. The story is of very quetionable character. My take on it is Honda just released a hydrogen hybrid that will take years to catch on due to hydrogen pumping station scarcity and the overwhelming cost of producing hydrogen not to mention the carbon producing hydrogen emits. Why put all that effort into a car if some other Japenese company has a car that you can fill up at your local stream?
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