[careinke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sjn', ' ')...Military/Medical-Industrial Complex....

[Pops]

Right on, OF, careful those blinders don't give you a rash.

Perfectly normal for scores of millions to decide they no longer need to work, why didn't I think of that?

Maybe they decided to take some flower arranging classes instead? Poetry composition perhaps.

<snort>

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', 'O')h yeah, one other thing ... A lot of the people who had jobs 5 years ago were construction workers building housing during the housing bubble.

[copious.abundance]

^
I was responding to something more specific:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'y')ou always manage to leave off that list those people that would love to work, but whom are no longer considered worth hiring.

[kublikhan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', 'F')or a lot of them, it's because they majored in Ethnic Studies, Sustainability Studies, Sociology or some similarly useless degree, learned nothing useful, once managed to get a job as a secretary or government researcher somewhere, got laid off during the recession, but now can't find a job because they have useless skills from a useless degree. So they spend their time nowadays participating in the "Occupy [insert city here]" protests. Meanwhile there are some 600K manufacturing jobs going begging, not to mention countless openings in the oil fields of North Dakota and south Texas, but these people don't want jobs like that because they aren't used to actually using their brain to do something halfway hard, or they don't want to do hard physical work, or they don't want to do jobs like those because it isn't something that will Help Save The World. Boo hoo hoo.

[copious.abundance]

One of the problems - and of course there's nothing anyone can do about it - is that the manufacturing jobs going begging are ones which require a higher skill set than in days of yore, which is why a lot of manufacturers can't train them on-the-job anymore. Not even Boeing gives out degrees in mechanical engineering (nor should they), and acquiring the skills for a machinst these days requires a skill set which, at least at one technical college near me, is a 2-year degree. Your typical machine shop does not have the time to train somone for 2 years just to give someone basic skills, so one can hardly blame them for not training on-the-job.

The other problem is the lack of willingness for a lot of young people these days to go into these professions. Somewhere recently I read a survey which said that only 3% (I think) of high school students wanted to go into manufacturing.

[peripato]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('peripato', 'H')as the job creation rate not been negative for the past four years as shown by the elevated level of unemployment in the graph below?

Does that not indicate there are today fewer people employed in jobs that would be eligible to file for unemployment insurance when the do get laid-off?


Recovery indeed! What a bunch of bollocks!

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', 'O')ne of the problems - and of course there's nothing anyone can do about it - is that the manufacturing jobs going begging are ones which require a higher skill set than in days of yore, which is why a lot of manufacturers can't train them on-the-job anymore. Not even Boeing gives out degrees in mechanical engineering (nor should they), and acquiring the skills for a machinst these days requires a skill set which, at least at one technical college near me, is a 2-year degree. Your typical machine shop does not have the time to train somone for 2 years just to give someone basic skills, so one can hardly blame them for not training on-the-job.

The other problem is the lack of willingness for a lot of young people these days to go into these professions. Somewhere recently I read a survey which said that only 3% (I think) of high school students wanted to go into manufacturing.

[eXpat]

Another example about how recovered us economy is
Who you gonna call? Detroit police stations to close to the public for 16 hours a day
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')etroit, which has one of the highest crime rates of large American cities, will close the doors of its police stations to the public from 4pm each day, reopening 16 hours later at 8am.

From Monday, many residents wanting to report crimes will not be able to speak face-to-face with an officer as the cash-strapped city struggles to slash costs.

Instead, members of the public will have to phone or go online to report an incident, in what has been dubbed 'virtual precincts'.
Public-facing desks at the eight stations that represent the eight precincts or districts of the Detroit Police Department will be closed during crucial hours.

In addition to cutting public access hours at police stations, the department will lay off about 100 police officers in order to trigger federal grants.

Those grants would pay for the immediate re-hiring of the affected officers.

The latest downsizing plan is already reigniting criticism of the police department.
'I was a police officer in Detroit for 35 years and I can tell you they have wasted money for 35 years," John Barr, a representative for the Police Officers Association of Michigan, said in a telephone interview.
'It's pathetic, just pathetic.'
Detroit's police department, along with other critical services, has shouldered considerable cuts in recent years. The city has scrambled to reduce costs and structure in the face of a shrinking population, escalating legacy costs, and lower tax revenues.

Mayor Dave Bing recently laid out a plan to cut $258 million over the next 18 months, $102 million of which needs to be cut by June.
The city estimates it could run out of money within the next 90 days if immediate action is not taken.

[eXpat]

Again: US $25 Million Away From Debt Ceiling Breach
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/here-we-go-again-us-25-million-away-debt-ceiling

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eXpat', 'A')gain: US $25 Million Away From Debt Ceiling Breach
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/here-we-go-again-us-25-million-away-debt-ceiling

[copious.abundance]

You can tell the doomers are desperate when:

1. They are posting anecdotes about troubles in a city which has been going down the dumps for decades, as if that were some sort of proof the economy is not getting better.
2. They are posting articles about the debt ceiling being neared - as if that also wasn't happening when Ronald Reagan was president and basically under every president for the past hundred years, and under just about all economic conditions.

[Cog]

$15 trillion of debt is a lot of money.

[KingM]

This thread shows signs of dying as reality trumps argument. Can we officially declare that the double dip never happened, whether or not we argue that the recovery was anemic? At this point, the next recession will clearly not be associated with the previous one, even if that comes as soon as next quarter.

My official prediction is that 2012 will start as well as any year since before the recession, then choke off to around 1% growth as oil skyrockets in response. I think we're likely to see this pattern repeat again and again as oil becomes more scarce up until the point where alternatives take up a much larger portion of the overall energy mix.

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KingM', 'T')his thread shows signs of dying as reality trumps argument. Can we officially declare that the double dip never happened, whether or not we argue that the recovery was anemic? At this point, the next recession will clearly not be associated with the previous one, even if that comes as soon as next quarter.

My official prediction is that 2012 will start as well as any year since before the recessions yer., then choke off to around 1% growth as oil skyrockets in response. I think we're likely to see this pattern repeat again and again as oil becomes more scarce up until the point where alternatives take up a much larger portion of the overall energy mix.

[Quinny]

16 hours from 4pm till 8am is seen as normal in many of our local stations. If it's every station than it's an issue, but many small stations are manned with no callers.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eXpat', 'A')nother example about how recovered us economy is
Who you gonna call? Detroit police stations to close to the public for 16 hours a day
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')etroit, which has one of the highest crime rates of large American cities, will close the doors of its police stations to the public from 4pm each day, reopening 16 hours later at 8am.

From Monday, many residents wanting to report crimes will not be able to speak face-to-face with an officer as the cash-strapped city struggles to slash costs.

Instead, members of the public will have to phone or go online to report an incident, in what has been dubbed 'virtual precincts'.
Public-facing desks at the eight stations that represent the eight precincts or districts of the Detroit Police Department will be closed during crucial hours.

In addition to cutting public access hours at police stations, the department will lay off about 100 police officers in order to trigger federal grants.

Those grants would pay for the immediate re-hiring of the affected officers.

The latest downsizing plan is already reigniting criticism of the police department.
'I was a police officer in Detroit for 35 years and I can tell you they have wasted money for 35 years," John Barr, a representative for the Police Officers Association of Michigan, said in a telephone interview.
'It's pathetic, just pathetic.'
Detroit's police department, along with other critical services, has shouldered considerable cuts in recent years. The city has scrambled to reduce costs and structure in the face of a shrinking population, escalating legacy costs, and lower tax revenues.

Mayor Dave Bing recently laid out a plan to cut $258 million over the next 18 months, $102 million of which needs to be cut by June.
The city estimates it could run out of money within the next 90 days if immediate action is not taken.

[eXpat]

California's paltry deficit is $9.2 Billions
Surprise! The New State Budget
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he unveiling of a governor's state budget every January is an annual, and well rehearsed, ritual: budget decisions are made in late December, budget goes to the printer, gubernatorial staffers privately brief some stakeholder groups (some who leak to the press), governor calls a news conference.

Yeah. So much for the playbook. On Thursday afternoon, after a copy of his proposal somehow was uploaded to a state website (oops), Governor Jerry Brown quickly summoned reporters and offered up the entire 2012-13 blueprint -- one that pegs the deficit at $9.2 billion and includes some major changes and cuts to health and human services.

"The California government is under stress," said Brown in his Capitol Q&A with reporters. "We're spending, in real terms, what we were in the 70s, under Ronald Reagan. So we're doing the best we can and it is a hardship."

The $137.3 billion spending plan offers yet more controversial spending cuts, but ones that appear to be rooted in some actual retooling of existing state government practices -- perhaps a sign that Brown knows that the system, as it exists, doesn't give him as many options.

Tops on that 'retooling' list would be the welfare-to-work program CalWorks. Brown proposes to cut $1.4 billion out of the program by reducing the assistance to families that fail to meet federal work requirements. In many cases, that's a cut from four years of eligibility for benefits down to two years.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KingM', ' ')Can we officially declare that the double dip never happened, whether or not we argue that the recovery was anemic?

[ralfy]

Not just $15 trillion in debt, but also $30 trillion in corporate debt, around $10 trillion in household debt, at some point personal debt even reaching 150 pct of disposable income, 40 years of trade deficits, around 70 pct of the economy dependent on consumer spending with 70 pct relying on the service sector for work, U.S. banks exposed to over $370 trillion in unregulated derivatives, government future liabilities at around $77 trillion to over $200 trillion, and all part of a global economy with over $600 trillion to $1.2 quadrillion in unregulated derivatives.

Given that, the best we can say that any recovery from a problem caused by increasing debt can only involve...increasing debt.

[Pops]

Just to recap:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he BLS reported 200,000 new jobs (42,000 of which were part time workers for places like FedX and UPS and will be gone next month) and an unemployment rate of 8.5%. Twenty percent of the jobs previously reported for November were revised away, leaving only 100,000. For the year, the economy added 1.64 million total non-farm jobs and the economy has 6.0 million fewer jobs than in 2007. The number of people not in the labor force (and thus not officially unemployed) is up 7.5 million since 2007 and now stands at 13.1 million. Labor force participation is now at a 27 year low of 64%,The real unemployment rate, using a realistic labor force participation rate, would be 11.4%. Following the BLS approach, when the participation rate reaches 58.5% there will be no unemployed people in the US and the stimulus will have worked.