[eastbay]

Geko45,

You assume these guys pulled the once FMJ AK and now mushroomed ( like hollow point 9mm ) rounds out of bodies, or that they were found on the street after having fully penetrated a body.

The likelihood of that is so slim it's beyond calculation!

[eastbay]

It's 2153 hrs here. Still a few hours to go yet.... heh.

The PRC will never be a western-style democracy. Anyone who died at or near the square on June 4th probably died in vain. The truth is that we'll never know all of the facts from that period of time, especially from June 3rd and 4th, so all there is to do is conjecture.

[Geko45]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', 'T')he likelihood of that is so slim it's beyond calculation!

[Geko45]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', 'T')he PRC will never be a western-style democracy. Anyone who died at or near the square on June 4th probably died in vain. The truth is that we'll never know all of the facts from that period of time, especially from June 3rd and 4th, so all there is to do is conjecture.

[eastbay]

'ilk' lol....

Why thank you Geko45.

Seems like you've got your humor back too! Sounds like a proper closing remark as well. Good night and thanks for the lively exchange. A good sparring is healthy not only for the body but for the mind too! It helps tone up (or down...lol) one's positions. And especially at my age.... heh.

[Geko45]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', ''')ilk' lol.... Why thank you Geko45. Seems like you've got your humor back too!

[eastbay]

No, I suspect they wouldn't find much of anything amusing including the jail food. Jail is certainly no fun. Sedition is a serious capital offense in China as well as in many other countries, so it's interesting they're still alive. Engaging in capital offenses is very risky and should be avoided, but they chose to ignore the law. The PRC government must want them alive so the message to not engage in seditious activity will remain clear.

There's Reuters spreading that rediculous 'hundreds or thousands' killed nonsense again. It just keeps getting repeated over and over again. One picture of a handfull of spent shells (origin unknown), a few bloody shirts (cause uncertain), a morgue picture (could be anything at all) and it's twisted and morphed by the PRC government, the student protest leaders, and usual mass-media into a 'Massacre' at Tiananmen Square.

The PRC government did the right and proper action by clearing the square. Any government in any large country anywhere probably would have done the same. But the PRC clearly and without any doubt did it in the most peaceful manner possible under the circumstances. It was an amazing public display of restraint on the part of the communist soldiers and police that the world witnessed.

And it was an amazing display of exaggeration and propaganda that quickly developed afterwards.

[kabu]

Giving them a taste of their own medicine? Good work!

[Plantagenet]

The Tiananmen Knot
By WU'ER KAIXI
June 4, 2007
Recent comments by a Hong Kong politician have reignited media interest in the events of June 4, 1989; a day sometimes -- though less frequently than in these heady days of the China economic miracle -- referred to as the Tiananmen massacre. Ma Lik's comments may have been inopportune and ill-considered, but the subsequent public debate has raised issues that are worthy of serious consideration.

On May 15, Mr. Ma, the chairman of a pro-Beijing, Hong Kong-based political party, stated at a press conference that the June 4 crackdown was not a "massacre" because troops in Beijing did not fire "indiscriminately" at the protesting students. By seizing on the word "massacre" and denying that it can be strictly applied to events that transpired on June 4, Mr. Ma attempted to whitewash a very problematic moment in recent Chinese history. It is small surprise that he has suffered a fierce backlash from many quarters

---------

Some folks in the PRC and their sympathizers have apparently decided the "Tianamen massacre" is not politically correct and in classic "1984" style they are trying to make the words "Tiananmen massacre" disappear from their Newspeak dictionaries.

[eastbay]

It's fairly obvious by now that the grossly exaggerated term 'massacre' should be deleted from references to the Tiananmen Square protests, other than as a historical footnote regarding the miracle of propaganda.

By seizing on the word "massacre" and denying that it can be strictly applied to events that transpired on June 4, Mr. Ma attempted to accurately clarify a very problematic moment in recent Chinese history. It is a small surprise that Mr. Ma has enjoyed fierce support from many quarters.

I made a few needed corrections in the interest of accuracy in reporting.

[Plantagenet]

The size of the Tianamen massacre is similar to other massacres. For instance, the "Wounded Knee" massacre killed about 300 Sioux.

Are you going to start a campaign against the use of the word massacre in that case too? Is the word "massacre" now politically incorrect, or just when applied to the Tianamen killings?

[Plantagenet]

Amnesty International calls for justice for victims of Tiananmen massacre


Amnesty International calls on China to stop covering up the Tiananmen massacre and to have an open, free investigatation into what really happened.

Sadly, that won't happen as long as Ma Lik and the Ma Likist running dogs succeed in covering up the crimes of the PLA on that horrible day.

[eastbay]

http://www.lastoftheindependents.com/wounded.htm

Wikipedia (for what that's worth) concurs. About 150 killed at Wounded Knee. You claim 300? I've heard that before and it's a typical exaggeration. Start a thread on Wounded Knee claiming 300 were massacred. See what happens. Someone might disagree. Who knows...

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/massacre

This is the common definition. It applies for Wounded Knee. It certainly applies whenever the US bombs some village or city in Iraq due to: 'indiscriminate', 'plunder', 'large number', 'unnecessary'.

It definitely does NOT apply for Tiananmen Square.

[Plantagenet]

Why is China afraid to even have an official investigation of the Tiananmen massacre?

Surely the murder victims and their families aren't a danger to the Chinese government now, 18 years after the massacre?

[eastbay]

Would you please repair that oversize posting? I don't believe it's allowed.

This protest has been investigated endlessly by just about all concerned. If there was something noteworthy to report the communist government of the PRC would let us know. Just like ours would under similar circumstances.

[Plantagenet]

The massacre was investigated by Amnesty International. They found there were about 1000 victims.




The Chinese government, however, has never carried out its own investigation. They still have some people in prison for the horrible "thought crime" of advocating democracy in 1989. China is now rich and strong. Its long past due for China to release the pro-democracy political prisoners from its camps and come clean about the massacre. Ma Lik and the Ma Likist running dogs can bark all they like, but they can't change the past.

[eastbay]

double posting. Ooops

[eastbay]

Bark, bark, bark.... I just returned from a nice four mile run with a few dogs.

Amnesty International??? The most recent mention they have of the 'crackdown', as they call it, is from 2000. Looks like they quit rattling the cage on this tale years ago.

You really should fix that oversized posting. The mods here have mentioned many times to not do that. I understand you're very new here at PO.com so you get some slack.

[eastbay]

Do not post linked in graphics/photos more than 450 pixels wide or long URL’s that cause the page view to widen and necessitates the reader to scroll.

Plantagenet, This is from the Code of Conduct. Please fix those oversized postings. It's a violation of the Code of Conduct. The Mods can't possible notice every posting so we should be careful and monitor ourselves. This is the third time I've nicely asked.

[Plantagenet]

Sorry Eastbay.

I didn't realize I had made the wrap problem with that oversize URL. Thanks for explaining.

Cheers!