[dohboi]

http://www.eater.com/2015/2/16/8048069/ ... estruction

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')an a vegan diet save the world? According to a new report from the UN, the answer is "yes." The Guardian writes that "a global shift towards a vegan diet is vital to save the world from hunger, fuel poverty, and the worst impacts of climate change." The report notes that the Western preference for meat- and dairy-heavy diets is "unsustainable," especially as the population is expected to grow to 9.1 billion by 2050.

The report adds that "animal products cause more damage than [producing] construction minerals such as sand or cement, plastics or metals." Plus, livestock raised for meat consumes a large portion of the world's crops and a lot of freshwater. Currently, agriculture, "particularly meat and dairy products," account for 70 percent of the world's freshwater consumption. It also accounts for 39 percent of the globe's total land use and 19 percent of its greenhouse gas emissions.

Importantly, as the population grows, the impact from agriculture will substantially grow as well, thanks to the the increasing consumption of animal products. The report notes that "unlike fossil fuels, it is difficult to look for alternatives." The only option is to cut down on the number of animal products consumed.

The UN isn't the only one advocating a more plant-focused diet. A couple from the United Kingdom are working hard to make "Veganuary" a global movement. The duo are trying to convince people to eat less animal products by going vegan for the month of January. According to a press release, 50 percent of last year's participants said that they "intended to remain vegan for good." Perhaps the UN just found a new partner in their global mission?

[ennui2]

Key phrase: "as the population grows"

In other words, treat the symptoms, not the root-cause.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'd')ohboi, I did a search on the report but could find no instance of the word 'vegan' .Nowhere in the report does the alphanumeric string 'vegan' appear. It must be encoded for the veganaratti or some other secret vegetarian language. I guess only those in the know, know.

[dohboi]

From the preface:

"Agricultural production accounts for a staggering 70% of the global freshwater consumption, 38% of the total land use, and 14% of the world’s greenhouse gas emissions."

Do you think that's all from kale production???

And look at the graph in the conclusions section on page 76--livestock farming is the only food-related issue that is considered a 'first priority.'

And in the same graph under 'second priority,' meat processing and milk processing come in before 'other foodstuffs.'

Further, from pages 80-81: "Food production is the most significant influence on land use and
therefore habitat change, water use... Animal products, both meat and dairy, in general require more resources and cause higher emissions than plant-based alternatives."



Not to mention this from page 82:

"Agricultural materials, especially animal products, are also a very important material flow in terms of their contribution to a large number of impact categories.

Animal products are important because more than half of the world’s crops are used to feed animals, not people.

Land and water use, pollution with nitrogen and phosphorus, and GHG emissions from land use and fossil fuel use cause substantial environmental impacts."

And finally from p. 84: "Impacts from agriculture are expected to
increase substantially due to population growth, increasing consumption of animal products...

A substantial reduction of
impacts would only be possible with
a substantial worldwide diet change,
away from animal products."

How much more do I have to spell it out for you?

Sometimes it's useful to actually try to read a little bit and think a tiny bit before assuming you know exactly what something is and isn't saying...just sayin'.

[PrestonSturges]

I think what holds back veganism etc is that many foodies seem to be quite insane. This goes back to "The Co-op Wars" when food co-ops nearly engaged in armed conflicts, the bizarre offshoots of Nazism in the '30s and '40's, and going all the way back to the Victorian obsession of restricting the diet to discourage masturbation.

[Peak_Yeast]

If anything it should say:
Veganism can postpone the world destruction slightly and lead to an even more impoverished earth in which a recovery will not happen again anytime "soon".

[dohboi]

pst wrote: "There can be no doubt mankind's meat eating is detrimental to the planet"

Well, we can agree on that, at least, then!

What you say after it is obvious total BS since people have been living on vegan an near vegan diets for millennia.

The document clearly says that the diet of most humans has to move away from animal-based diet if we are to have any chance of a livable future. Do you have some other interpretations of that than that it is an endorsement of veganism? They don't have to say that particular word to get the meaning across.

If your doctor says you have clogged arteries, do you go out of his/her office relieved because he didn't mention the word thrombosis? Exactly how totally idiotic and ridiculous of an argument do you want to make here.

It really is pathetic to see otherwise smart and honest people twist and turn to find any legitimization for their precious pound of flesh. Quite pathetic indeed.

PS: Do you actually know anything in much detail about those so called 'coop wars'? Any first hand knowledge? I was there (though not armed) and your description bears little resemblance to my recollections of events.

PY: Yeah, I'll grant that 'save the world from destruction' is a bit to richly optimistic for my taste. But there certainly isn't any way in hell we are going to avoid most of the very worst consequence of GW, water scarcity, mass extinction and other joys if the world adopts the US's high-meat-and-dairy consumption diet, as it seems all to ready to do.

[Strummer]

I don't plan to have kids, don't drive a car and avoid flying. By these things I already make a much bigger contribution that any vegan.

You know, what about we first kill the whole retarded consumerist industry which produces the millions of cars, billions of eletronics and trillions of other plastic crap that no one needs? After that we can start talking about me "contributing" by adjusting my diet.

[Paulo1]

Why is it when someone in the family turns vegetarian everyone else has to adjust? Either the husband and kids turn veggie, or separate meals have to be cooked, always.

Shades of my ex-wife experience. Her new husband sneaks out to Pizza Hut when he can get away with it. For the Supreme, I would imagine.

Anyway, Dohboi. I got news for you....vegans will not save the world. Nice try on a provocative hook.

We finally got some rain on the coast. The air is wonderful this morning. In my backyard on the river bank I have a fire pit with my very own Mongolian Grill made out of 1" plate steel with a welded grate attached to it. We can now safely have an outside fire. Tonight we are having elk steaks...grilled, with a huge pile of seared onions done on the grill. Cost to the world? Nothing, as the elk ravage my crops and everyone elses around here. We all are doing our own little bit to save the world. I really like kale, too. Awesome veggie. It goes very nice with salmon and almost any other attached carb.

[ROCKMAN]

Damn! I'm disappointed. I thought this was going to be about cooking down all the vegans and skimming of the oil. Bunch of dang teasers got me excited for nuthin. Now have to finish working on the plan to boil down the Muslims.

[GHung]

I suppose beer, wine and distilled spirits qualify as vegan, eh? I always reject any all-or-nothing mandates, and the problem as I see it is not consumption of meat but, like most things, the scale of consumption. I don't see raising a few goats on marginal land, or some free-range chickens for the pot as being particularly detrimental to the environment or one's diet. Further, If we don't harvest a few deer in our area we end up with a big overpopulation problem (since the other top predators were eliminated long ago). Good luck supporting a family's vegan diet when the Whitetails are competing for your food sources. And I'm not going to turn all that good venison into dog food and switch my own diet to kale and beans.

It's just another issue that proponents over-simplify to fit their world view. Some cultures are already largely vegan. Tell that to folks in high latitudes with short growing seasons, folks with high calorie requirements and where game and fish are the most abundant source of those calories. Sure.

[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dohboi', '
')What you say after it is obvious total BS since people have been living on vegan an near vegan diets for millennia.

[dohboi]

GHung (how are we supposed to pronounce that? ) wrote: "I see it is not consumption of meat but, like most things, the scale of consumption"

For the record, I do too.

Meat eaters who even pretend to give flying f should be encouraging veganism, since the more vegans their are, the more meat there is for them! But the sum total of meat eaten on the earth certainly has to go down dramatically.

I see no way around that and haven't seem any arguments to contradict this. Obviously, it doesn't have to go to zero, so whatever meat can be sustainably grown will be more generously distributed among the hard core carnivores the vegans there are.

So I really only see two routes for anyone with a spec of ethics in remaining in their bodies:

1) Go vegan (or nearly so)
2) Promote veganism (and near-veganism) even more adamantly than the most obsessive vegan so that there will be more meat to go around for you as someone who lacks the cojones to give up the bloody flesh.

But mostly people are sorely lacking in even a spec of ethics, apparently. Especially when it comes to their sacred 'right' to eat creatures with faces.

[dohboi]

PS wrote : $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Not counting that they eat every rat, snake, songbird, insect, and goat's anus they can get their hands on. It's not as if they are living a petting zoo.

[dohboi]

New convert--about six months--hence some of the zeal??

Mostly vegetarian before that (rarely ate meat--for examples just at extended family events to avoid conflicts, but now I'm tired of it. I never ask anyone to make anything special for me, though) since early teen years.

[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dohboi', 'P')S wrote : $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Not counting that they eat every rat, snake, songbird, insect, and goat's anus they can get their hands on. It's not as if they are living a petting zoo.