[jimmydean]

In north america, since cash is cheap for now, I think everyone is betting on the economy improving. As long as people can keep borrowing cheap and spending we can continue to keep ignoring the problems.

Granted services industry has grown but can it really make up for outsourcing of existing manufacturing and white collar work? If you don't believe that it can at some point real consumer spending must fall due to unemployment and lower wages regardless of how much we can borrow. We will have people chasing fewer lower wage jobs ; a deflationary environment.

I don't see any indication that new job creation of similar wages is equal to jobs lost.

Globalization must result in the increasing of prosperity of the hot outsource spots and a lowering in prosperity from where the jobs were taken from unless new job creation of equal wages = lost jobs. That $20/hour that an American worker made in a manufacturing plant is now 0.50c/hour job of an asia pacific worker with the rest of the profit being pocketed by the manufacturers and/or middlemen delivering the product to the consumers.

Adios to middle class north america.

[jimmydean]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shakespear1', 'T')his building of plants overseas is accelerating!!!

What I like is looking at shirts that say made in China and seeing a price tag of $35

[BabyPeanut]

http://www.bls.gov/schedule/archives/wkyeng_nr.htm

ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/news.release/Hist ... 62005.news
$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', '===============================================================================================================
Table 6. Median usual weekly earnings of full-time wage and salary workers by selected characteristics, annual averages


Number of workers Median weekly earnings
(in thousands)


Characteristic In current dollars In constant (1982)
dollars
2003 2004

2003 2004 2003 2004

SEX AND AGE

Total, 16 years and over................... 100,302 101,224 $620 $638 $325 $326
')

most recent quarter shows your money becoming worthless very fast:

ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/news.release/Hist ... 02005.news

$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', '===============================================================================================================
Table 1. Median usual weekly earnings of full-time wage and salary workers by selected characteristics, quarterly averages, not seasonally adjusted


Number of workers Median weekly earnings
(in thousands)


Characteristic In current dollars In constant (1982)
dollars
II II
2004 2005
II II II II
2004 2005 2004 2005

SEX AND AGE

Total, 16 years and over................... 101,300 103,332 $639 $643 $326 $319')
2005 dollars adjusted in 1982 show the value of money falling fast.

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jimmydean', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shakespear1', 'T')his building of plants overseas is accelerating!!!

What I like is looking at shirts that say made in China and seeing a price tag of $35

[Cool Hand Linc]

I see it, JimmyDean.

It is more like a change. Some areas are slowing. Some are moving and evolving.

When jobs go over seas. Buying power here decreases. Buying power over seas increases. So here we are having a recession of sorts.

working class wages are becoming lower. I don't have data on this but when I look in the paper and see what is being offered for starting wages. It seems they are lower.

My wages haven't increased at the rate of inflation for 8 years. 1 or 2 % less each year. Cost of goods keeps going up. Everything!

[jtmorgan61]

Britain's growth is mostly slowing down because their housing bubble popped. The central bank is finally starting to lower interest rates now that they are satisfied. It will be interesting to see if the economy picks back up in response.

In the developed world, every country is consistently growing at under 4%. The high achievers are the US and Australia, who average over 3%. The euro area is growing more like 1%.

Wages aren't rising in the U.S. because outsourcing or the threat of outsourcing is keeping them depressed. It will take an awful long time until chinese labor wages rise up to the point that it no longer makes sense to manufacture in China.

It will be interesting indeed to see what happens when the US housing bubble pops...

[jdmartin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nd they are going to be building a new factory over in China to make some of the products we are making here in the US.

[MagnoliaFan]

Maybe these guys can be retrained to clean swimming pools? (link to article)

A job is a job is a job. It seems lately that the words "nationalist" and "protectionist" have become dirty words... why? Why should the US government allow jobs to go out of its country in the name of globalization?

“Free Markets” = “Globalism” = “Multiculturalism” = Socialism = Third World Hellhole = One World Government = Global Slave Plantation = Genocide =You live out of a station wagon and your kids eat spam for the rest of their lives if they are lucky.

I pray TSHTF will come fast and hard, in the hopes that the NWO scumbag traitors will be trampled to death by the teeming masses that they pretend to represwent. Instead, what is happening now is the classic frog being slowly boiled to death scenario.

Nobody notices that they're getting screwed up the a**.

[jimmydean]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MagnoliaFan', '[')url=http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=reutersEdge&storyID=2005-08-04T175819Z_01_N04631538_RTRIDST_0_PICKS-BIZECONOMY-MANUFACTURING-DC.XML]Maybe these guys can be retrained to clean swimming pools? (link to article)[/url]

A job is a job is a job. It seems lately that the words "nationalist" and "protectionist" have become dirty words... why? Why should the US government allow jobs to go out of its country in the name of globalization?

“Free Markets” = “Globalism” = “Multiculturalism” = Socialism = Third World Hellhole = One World Government = Global Slave Plantation = Genocide =You live out of a station wagon and your kids eat spam for the rest of their lives if they are lucky.

I pray TSHTF will come fast and hard, in the hopes that the NWO scumbag traitors will be trampled to death by the teeming masses that they pretend to represwent. Instead, what is happening now is the classic frog being slowly boiled to death scenario.

Nobody notices that they're getting screwed up the a**.

[BabyPeanut]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jtmorgan61', 'I')t will be interesting indeed to see what happens when the US housing bubble pops...

[anthem]

Speaking of the housing bubble popping:

San Diego Housing Market Slowdown

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MagnoliaFan', '�')��Free Markets” = “Globalism” = “Multiculturalism” = Socialism = Third World Hellhole = One World Government

[I_Like_Plants]

Yep electricians, plumbers, carpenters, landscapers, Home Depot, Lowe's, Orchard Supply Hardware, paint co's, lumber co's etc are all doing great - until the real estate bubble pops and pop it will. Not if, when.

I was talking to a gal who works at a real estate office, she says places (here in the bay area) are getting "less multiple offers" now, but "starter" places are still doing well - then she went on to describe a deal on a starter place that was in the $700k range! That's a starter!?!?!?!

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MagnoliaFan', '.')............
A job is a job is a job. It seems lately that the words "nationalist" and "protectionist" have become dirty words... why? Why should the US government allow jobs to go out of its country in the name of globalization?
..............

[JoeW]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MagnoliaFan', '�')��Free Markets” = “Globalism” = “Multiculturalism” = Socialism = Third World Hellhole = One World Government

[Kez]

Does anyone have the current figures for service vs manufacturing in this country? In the 80's, I remember reading the Economist magazine and it said the U.S. at that time was 70% service, 30% manufacturing.

That means most people earn their money from service, or they buy junk from overseas and put it together, and sell it again, they don't actually make anything. Since I, too, rarely see anything 'Made in the USA', I can only guess the ratio is around 85% - 15%.

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jimmydean', '
')Wealth being transferred overseas to the "new" middle class of these countries as well as the pockets of corporations and wealthy.

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MagnoliaFan', '.')............
A job is a job is a job. It seems lately that the words "nationalist" and "protectionist" have become dirty words... why? Why should the US government allow jobs to go out of its country in the name of globalization?
..............

[nth]

There is a lot of misconceptions about China here that I want to clear up.

China does not have a peaceful history. Internal rebellions happen a lot! Only the successful ones led to dynastic changes. Almost everytime a drought occurrs- a rebellion occurrs. Success or not is another matter.

Even the past 10 years, China has seen many revolts and security personnels had to be sent to squashed the riots. They follow that up with increase security and increase aid- a carrot and a stick approach.

Chinese people do not accept low wages. Wage increases in China is growing faster than India. Companies in China had to relocate or they bus people from rural areas to keep wages down. This will only continue for so long before you runout of people who are willing to work for low wages. Business in China are having problems finding low wages. The last five years they had to resort to hiring single women in low wage areas. Men already priced out of the labor market. Chinese managers are already higher paid than India. Low wage jobs have high turnovers- making managing these businesses very difficult.

Chinese labor market is not a blackhole that sucks all the jobs of the world. China is competing well today not because of low wages- India and other third world countries can outcompete China, but China is winning by implementing the world's most advanced automation they are allowed to buy. They can built US equivalent factories if US allows them to. Other third world countries cannot afford to purchase these factories to compete against China. Why China has the money because Western businesses think they can sell it to Chinese market after saturating Western markets. This was proven true after the internet bubble where the Chinese domestic market took off.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

For people who want to protect US jobs, just remember what trigger Great Depression and WW2. Back then US foreign trade was such a small part of our economy, yet cutting off from trade caused the Depression. Now with more of our economy dependent on trade, cutting it off will cause a worse scenario. Isolation simply doesn't work. Since 1880's US industrialization needs foreign trade. You can see evidence of all the economic crashes US went through and see how foreign trade decline prior to the crashes.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

cube,

China already supplies US armforces.

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nth', '
')
For people who want to protect US jobs, just remember what trigger Great Depression and WW2. Back then US foreign trade was such a small part of our economy, yet cutting off from trade caused the Depression. Now with more of our economy dependent on trade, cutting it off will cause a worse scenario. Isolation simply doesn't work. Since 1880's US industrialization needs foreign trade. You can see evidence of all the economic crashes US went through and see how foreign trade decline prior to the crashes.