[Newsseeker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', '
')not building new refineries. The dollar is dropping, gasoline stocks are declining. I mean WTF?

One little tiny push and we are fucked beyond belief.

[Eli]

Yeah, people all over the place, not just PO nutters like us are talking about gas shortages in the US.

Save for a miracle we are going to have areas of real panic in the US when we run out of fuel.

We are tipping as we speak.

[PrairieMule]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NEOPO', '
')
What? like those contracts are good to the day after never?
As if costs wont simply be passed onto the consumer until the consumer no longer buys half the crap they never really needed anyways and then that crap wont need a truck to haul it nor a ship to ship it etc etc...
I expect this from most people but better from you.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrairieMule', '
')I think the third day of a independent trucker strike will bring the reality of our oil dependence to Joe Consumer.

[username]

Peak oil will initially be blamed on politics, I can almost guarantee you that. People will wonder why all these countries won't sell us enough oil to keep the prices low.

'Those damn terrorist lovers, why, we should FORCE them to sell us oil! They told us they've got decades worth so they MUST be holding out on us! Maybe it's the oil companies that are holding back production to make outrageous profits!'

Most people will not get it for quite a while and, in some respects, maybe the neocons are right. For some topics the public cannot handle the truth and desire and ultimately need to be lied to in order to pacify them, which they will be happy to oblige.

How long will that last? Who knows. All I know is when the shortages hit it's time to start your Escape Plan B (if you haven't finished your plan A yet) before too many people catch on.

[pea-jay]

Were not there now and a good arguement could be given that we wont be there even after oil really does peak and go into terminal decline. Absent catestrophic cutoffs, war or the good old fashioned panic we could suffer through 5-10 years of decline, recession and malaise punctured by the occasional collapse of an on the brink third world nation. It'll suck big time but the powers may be able to keep focus on superficial sources of blame, the market will destroy plenty of superfulous demand. But the lights will stay on (most of the time), gas will be available (but really expensive) and more of us will simply stay home. Unemployment will do that to us. I'd have to think the political outcry from farmers will apply enough strategic pressure so that farm subsidies literally will become fuel subsidies and who knows, the same will go for truckers. By subsidation the remaining fuel supplies will slowly make their way over to "essential sectors" and rising prices destroy the demand on the rest. Remember, the first years of decline will be modest...

This of course wont be sustainable in the long term and once again, most of us will waste this waning period to make drastic changes before the real bad collapsing begins. Duncan may be on to something, though I think his timing may be a bit quick.

Of course we might elect someone in 2008 that will give the deal to us straight and we'll get going on serious post petroleum planning.

yeah right

[JasonHam]

I know Im a few years late to this discussion, but I can't sleep and I find myself reading this thread.

PrairieMule wrote

I think the flashpoint for when TSHF will be on the 3rd day of a trucker's strike.

I predict the independent truck drivers who are locked into contracts will no longer "eat" the fuel costs and will literally shut down America. After 3 days of no trucks, the miracle of "Just-in-Time" inventory used by Wal-Mart and every grocery store will collapse

I don't know the details, but truckers and people who sympathize with them are organizing a protest drive to wash dc on april 28th(ithink) sometime late this month. Its not a strike, just a protest. But where there is smoke, there is fire. The protest isnt about peak oil, its about NAU - NORTH AMERICAN UNION. Which is some kind of business oriented contract between Canada/Mexico/US. Again, I dont know the details, but I would guess that this contract will allow companies like Wal-Mart to hire those from the "Far South" to drive the trucks...... and i imagine those from the far south will do it , for a chesseburger and a couple bucks.

Things are changing at a rapid pace in this country. Were losing are fucking jobs! And its not just truckers and factory workers. Its computer programmers and IT workers. The rest of the world will work for next to nothing. Americans wont. We demand a certain level of pay, healthcare, dental, ect ect......Its globalization. My question is, has anybody stopped and considered what all of this is doing to the average american and what the impacts will be on our society?? Its going to take some more pushing around, but at some point, everybody is going to get really fucking mad.....

[MD]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JasonHam', '.')..
Things are changing at a rapid pace in this country. Were losing are fucking jobs! And its not just truckers and factory workers. Its computer programmers and IT workers. The rest of the world will work for next to nothing. Americans wont. We demand a certain level of pay, healthcare, dental, ect ect......Its globalization. My question is, has anybody stopped and considered what all of this is doing to the average american and what the impacts will be on our society?? Its going to take some more pushing around, but at some point, everybody is going to get really fucking mad.....

[MD]

Here's the thing:

The world doesn't need us any more.

We can't compete any more.

We bring no value any more.

We will end up as an industrial military complex with a starving population.

It's just around the fucking corner and you all refuse to see it coming.

[MD]

Yeah, I'm quoting scripture, go ahead and get all fucking huffy about it--then read it and prepare for your imminent future:

Babylon=US
"merchants standing far off"=OPEC+Asia

emphasis mine


When the kings of the earth who committed adultery with her and shared her luxury see the smoke of her burning, they will weep and mourn over her. 10Terrified at her torment, they will stand far off and cry:
" 'Woe! Woe, O great city,
O Babylon, city of power!
In one hour your doom has come!'

11"The merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her because no one buys their cargoes any more— 12cargoes of gold, silver, precious stones and pearls; fine linen, purple, silk and scarlet cloth; every sort of citron wood, and articles of every kind made of ivory, costly wood, bronze, iron and marble; 13cargoes of cinnamon and spice, of incense, myrrh and frankincense, of wine and olive oil, of fine flour and wheat; cattle and sheep; horses and carriages; and bodies and souls of men.

14"They will say, 'The fruit you longed for is gone from you. All your riches and splendor have vanished, never to be recovered.' 15The merchants who sold these things and gained their wealth from her will stand far off, terrified at her torment. They will weep and mourn 16and cry out:
" 'Woe! Woe, O great city,
dressed in fine linen, purple and scarlet,
and glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls!
17In one hour such great wealth has been brought to ruin!'

[Tanada]

The population I encounter seems to be seething with irritation, though admittedly that could be my pre conceived beleifs coloring my vision. I know just how quickly irritation can turn to anger and anger to hasty action, I have a really bad feeling about the next few months and I hope that I am dead wrong in my fears.

Right now China and the ME want us for market purposes, if that changes we are all up the creek with no paddles in sight. If there is a major economic downturn in the USA from PO then Chineese cheap junk stops selling. IF that happens China stops buying US Treasuries. If That happens the dollar collapses. If That Happen TPTB try to force through the Amero/North American Union. IF THAT HAPPENS well TPTB might get a really abrupt surprise at how quickly irritation over the Mexican invasion can turn into a bloody civil war.

That is my biggest fear for the near future. People in my working class level are pissed off about unrelenting pressure to work harder for less money to compete with illeagle immigrants. I don;t know whare the tipping point is but the prospects are all to the down side and they scare me shitless.

Choose, life as a low paid scrounge worker or fight for what you have been taught you deserve. Either way you loose.

I want a third option.

[MD]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'T')he population I encounter seems to be seething with irritation, though admittedly that could be my pre conceived beleifs coloring my vision. I know just how quickly irritation can turn to anger and anger to hasty action, I have a really bad feeling about the next few months and I hope that I am dead wrong in my fears.

Right now China and the ME want us for market purposes, if that changes we are all up the creek with no paddles in sight. If there is a major economic downturn in the USA from PO then Chineese cheap junk stops selling. IF that happens China stops buying US Treasuries. If That happens the dollar collapses. If That Happen TPTB try to force through the Amero/North American Union. IF THAT HAPPENS well TPTB might get a really abrupt surprise at how quickly irritation over the Mexican invasion can turn into a bloody civil war.

That is my biggest fear for the near future. People in my working class level are pissed off about unrelenting pressure to work harder for less money to compete with illeagle immigrants. I don;t know whare the tipping point is but the prospects are all to the down side and they scare me shitless.

Choose, life as a low paid scrounge worker or fight for what you have been taught you deserve. Either way you loose.

I want a third option.

[Newsseeker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'Y')eah, people all over the place, not just PO nutters like us are talking about gas shortages in the US.

Save for a miracle we are going to have areas of real panic in the US when we run out of fuel.

We are tipping as we speak.

[MD]

I agree that there will be spot shortages this summer in some regions. It won't be wide-spread quite yet(barring major disruptive events occurring, of course).

[JasonHam]

Choose, life as a low paid scrounge worker or fight for what you have been taught you deserve. Either way you loose.

I suspect, most americans, will fight to the death, before being treated like an immigrant in their own country...........Just a guess

Where is the Jimmy Hoffa of are Lifetime?

I'm not as doomeristic as most on these boards. I dont think that America is crumbling right before are very eyes......Zombies wont roam the countryside looking for people to eat.......If anything, the rest of the world depends on America, without it, there would be more chaos....Saadam would be invading Saudi Arabia right now.....You think the french was going to stand up against Saddam?

But, I do think there will alot bread lines, soup kitchens and voilence. Tragic events that will be covered by every media outlet in the world. A great deal of suffering .


Whether peak oil occurs and gas prices skyrocket or not, Americans are still going to have to change are way of life, Drastically......Its not sustainable....Overshoot, Climate Change, Globalization, .....I think Peak oil is the kindling......

End of civilzation? NAuhhh, Depression style living....YES.

[Zardoz]

Settle down, folks. We're not going over a cliff. It'll be a gradual, excruciating, tortuously slow decline. Think waterboarding. Think being locked up in Gitmo with no due process and no hope of release.

For those of us who know where it's going, it'll be worse than a steep drop. It'll give us more time to get depressed. The knowledge of the inevitability of the process will be much worse than being ignorant of it.

[pea-jay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', 'S')ettle down, folks. We're not going over a cliff. It'll be a gradual, excruciating, tortuously slow decline. Think waterboarding. Think being locked up in Gitmo with no due process and no hope of release.

For those of us who know where it's going, it'll be worse than a steep drop. It'll give us more time to get depressed. The knowledge of the inevitability of the process will be much worse than being ignorant of it.

[I_Like_Plants]

But most Americans ARE being treated like immigrants in their own country!

Most don't realize it, then can't figure out why things went so well for their parents and they can't seem to get anywhere. Once you get it through your thick head that in the US today, you are competing with all those immigrants and even being put at a disadvantage (preferential hiring, education, housing, and everything else) it clears up a lot of things and explains why you can't seem to achieve shit. Then, you can buckle down and work on how to live OK even if you're effectively just another fuckin' wetback. The sooner Americans realize this, the sooner they can work on how to live, not according to the rules of a country that disappeared 30+ years ago, but according to realities of living in the Empire, now.

Mostly it comes down to learning to be happier with less. Find nonmaterialistic goals. And work on all the good self-sufficiency etc stuff you can learn on here, because when the collapse/revolution comes, it's going to get very interesting.

[MD]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', 'S')ettle down, folks. We're not going over a cliff. It'll be a gradual, excruciating, tortuously slow decline. Think waterboarding. Think being locked up in Gitmo with no due process and no hope of release.

For those of us who know where it's going, it'll be worse than a steep drop. It'll give us more time to get depressed. The knowledge of the inevitability of the process will be much worse than being ignorant of it.

[bodigami]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he final synthesis report from the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate change will show that growing economies herald growing greenhouse gas emissions and the result has been a growing threat of global warming, says scientist and Australian of the Year conservationist Tim Flannery.

''We thought we'd be at that threshold within about a decade,'' Flannery told ABC. ''We thought we had that much time, but the new data indicates that in about mid-2005, we crossed that threshold.''