[vision-master]

Soicalism for the rich and Capitalism for the working stiffs.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Novus', 'I') think you have a distorted vision of what Wealth is. Wealth isn't stored in empty building or banks. Wealth is created by working people making useful things by hand if necessary. The problem is the rich are taking the wealth created by the people and keeping it for themselves while putting those who actually do the wealth creating in debt.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Novus', ' ')Wealth is created by working people making useful things by hand if necessary.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '[')b]Very few people who make things with their hands are going to become wealthy. Its just too easy to find someone else who is willing to make the same thing for even lower wages. It might be a non-union worker, or an illegal alien, or someone in China or the Phillipines, but the cheapest worker will likely get the job.

[Plantagenet]

Just 22 Republicans had enough spine to vote "no" on Boehner's phony deficit reduction plan. Next will come Reid's plan---I'll bet there won't be a single dem with the spine to stand up to Reid and vote no on his phony plan, even though its even more filled with lies than Boehner's plan.



The brave "22"

Justin Amash (Mich.)
Michele Bachmann (Minn.)
Chip Cravaack (Minn.)
Jason Chaffetz (Utah)
Scott Desjarlais (Tenn.)
Tom Graves (Ga.)
Tim Huelskamp (Kans.)
Steve King (Iowa)
Tim Johnson (Ill.)
Tom McClintock (Calif.)
Mick Mulvaney (S.C.)
Ron Paul (Texas)
Connie Mack (Fla.)
Jim Jordan (Ohio)
Tim Scott (S.C.)
Paul Broun (Ga.)
Tom Latham (Iowa)
Jeff Duncan (S.C.)
Trey Gowdy (S.C.)
Steve Southerland (Fla.)
Joe Walsh (Ill.)
Joe Wilson (S.C.)

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')The Tea Party says there doesn't have to be default, just pay the bondholders, but that means grandma gets tossed out on the street.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', 'I') am associating liberalism mainly with welfare state, entitlement culture ..

[ItalyRules]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '[')b]Plant, it's not about "becoming wealthy" anymore, we're down to brass tacks now as to whether we have a middle class at all. They're even going after old folks. Sick people in nursing homes. They want to toss them out of their sick beds and hand them a useless voucher. Maybe Alaskan poor are insulated from this because they all get a socialist oil revenue check, but the rest of the US doesn't.

The Tea Party says there doesn't have to be default, just pay the bondholders, but that means grandma gets tossed out on the street.

As for Republicans who aren't internationally investing billionaires.. a truly smart small businessman knows he'll be in the poor house too if none of his customers can afford to patronize his business. Small business people should take a hard look at their customers.. a lot of them are retirees, healthcare workers, doctors, government workers at all levels. Eviscerate government and all you get is a black hole deflationary deppression, a trap that Greece and Ireland are in right now -- the more they cut, the more they contract, it's a vicious cycle.

(regarding the offshoring you know where I stand on that.. raise tariffs, build crap here again, create jobs problem solved)

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')Yup. Workers aren't even entitled to nominal pay anymore, but rather they OWE as DEBTS what's paid to them in exchange for their labor. Thing about that. The Man not only owns you, but he wants PAID BACK for what little he gives you.

That chart you posted is something else.. didn't see any numbers maybe it's misleading somehow but the bars sure match up. The richer the rich get, the more in debt everyone else is.

[Novus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'W')e're living in the most elitist age in our history. Sure maybe the 19th Century had some guilded ages, but back then a poor man could say screw and go homesteading. Now the frontiers are closed, every square inch of land is owned and mortgaged and leveraged.. the poor are trapped.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '
')I'd trade the socialism for protection from the plutocrats who will fill the niche of yesterday's Feudal lords.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Novus', '
')This is why I am in favor of debt free Socialism. Capitalism can't come to an end fast enough. Screw the debt everyone should just default. The wealth of US billionaires is just a number in a compute that say society owes them. Go into those wall street computers highlight the file containing the billionaires hedge fund and hit the delete key. Bye Bye debt and bye bye billionaires.

[Quinny]

Recently went on a tour of Slate mines in North Wales whish was operated as a 'free market'. Worker's used to bid for their mine/cave where they worked 12-16 hours per day in filthy dangerous conditions most dying by around 30 years old. and here's the rub.

They hired all equipment and tools and even in a good year they would often end up 'owing' money to the company (who by the way also owned company shop, house, church pub and everything else).

Capital will squeeze the life out of labour whenever it can - it's maths! Give them just enough to breed new workers when necessary and bread and circus to avoid revolt.

[Novus]

Billionaires don't own hard assets they own untaxable hedgefunds and various securities. If they actually had owned hard assets the government could have taxed those and we wouldn't be in this mess to begin with as the billionaires never would have become billionaires if they were paying taxes on their principle growth funds. You clearly aren't paying attention to how the world of finance works.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Novus', 'B')illionaires don't own hard assets they own untaxable hedgefunds and various securities. If they actually had owned hard assets the government could have taxed those and we wouldn't be in this mess to begin with as the billionaires never would have become billionaires if they were paying taxes on their principle growth funds. You clearly aren't paying attention to how the world of finance works.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quinny', 'R')ecently went on a tour of Slate mines in North Wales whish was operated as a 'free market'. Worker's used to bid for their mine/cave where they worked 12-16 hours per day in filthy dangerous conditions most dying by around 30 years old. and here's the rub.

They hired all equipment and tools and even in a good year they would often end up 'owing' money to the company (who by the way also owned company shop, house, church pub and everything else).

[Cog]

I see that Obama's class warfare talking points have all been exploited in this thread. The call of the mooch class: "Tax the rich, its all their fault" and "If only the rich were destroyed, my life would be better".

This whole slide down the Olduvai is going to be much more entertaining than I had imagined.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', '
')This whole slide down the Olduvai is going to be much more entertaining than I had imagined.

[Cloud9]

If socialism is such a good idea? Why does Apple have more cash than the government?

Where in the world is socialism working? Russia, China, Cambodia, Cuba all have rallied round the flag of the worker’s paradise. First off they murdered millions of their own countrymen. Then to save their regimes they had to resort to first black market capitalism and then state run capitalism. There is no incentive for production aside from fear in the socialist state. Production becomes a sham. Bureaucrats become the new plutocrats. Do you ever wonder why the KGB still runs Russia?

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'I') see that Obama's class warfare talking points have all been exploited in this thread. The call of the mooch class: "Tax the rich, its all their fault" and "If only the rich were destroyed, my life would be better".

This whole slide down the Olduvai is going to be much more entertaining than I had imagined.