[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') can see no set of circumstances that will allow for the possibility of you being a government employee for the next 30 years.

[ColossalContrarian]

I've started buying 5oz. of silver with every paycheck, American Eagles and Canadian Maple Leafs. I've already heard how they're a waste and that junk silver is a better bargain, but they're not as pretty.

I figure in 35 years when it's time to retire they should be worth much more than their current $15-$16per oz.

[dunewalker]

The best part of buying and holding physical silver as a retirement strategy is that you can cash it in as needed, whether it's next year, or 35 years from now. I would trust that reputable brand .999 silver rounds, such as Engelhard or APMEX will be easier to barter/sell at top price than "junk silver" will be. Most folks are unaware of the extra value of old silver coins vs current ones.

[some_math_guy]

In a nutshell, all pensions depend on investment returns to keep generating enough money to maintain the ratio of cash coming in to cash paid out around 1:1.

As we saw over the past year, when investment returns become negative, the pot of money begins to shrink, so pension managers are forced to either increase pension contributions or decrease benefits to pensioners.

All investment returns are predicated on economic activity that requires cheap oil for transportation. In the future, investment returns will be curtailed or even be negative due to a permanent shortage of cheap oil caused by a peak in global oil production (peak oil). Pension funds will be forced to either continually increase pension contributions or decrease benefits, and rational people will eventually refuse to participate (ie. why should I give my money to institutional investors so that they can continutally lose it for me?). A few pension funds with daring managers might be able to keep afloat, but overall pensions will be dead ducks.

All pensions are long-term Ponzi schemes that can only function with a continually increasing input of energy to keep investment performance positive. Depending on how long the game can be maintained, I'd say if you are 60 or 65, you may still live to see your pension provide for your retirement.

For my generation, forget about it.

[some_math_guy]

One key advantage to holding precious metals is that they should at least hold their value in the long term. There are virtually no other investments that are keeping pace with real inflation (not government-reported fake inflation).

To quote the Silver Institute:

'Why is this indispensable metal in such demand? The reasons are simple. Silver has a number of unique properties including its strength, malleability and ductility, its electrical and thermal conductivity, its sensitivity to and high reflectance of light and the ability to endure extreme temperature ranges. Silver’s unique properties restrict its substitution in most applications.

When I turn 65 in 2043, silver will be as rare as hen's teeth. A few thousand ounces, which will only cost you a few tens of thousands of dollars to buy now, will probably be worth several million dollars.

Paper money is just a number in a computer. Very convenient for day-to-day living, but certainly not the basis of a secure future for you and yours.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')ll pensions are long-term Ponzi schemes

[ColossalContrarian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')ll pensions are long-term Ponzi schemes

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')slo, if the dollar tanks I'm willing to bet it will have more barting power than paper greenbacks.

[some_math_guy]

I'm not sure that silver will be worth anything. But, I am sure that fiat currencies will be worth substantially less than they are today, if they are worth anything at all.

Assuming that we have a functioning advanced society that still uses electronics and needs solar energy for electricity, I think silver is a sure thing because all electronic solder uses silver, and all solar panels use silver.

This is in addtion to the millions of other uses in medicine (silver is a natural bacteriocide and is used to treat instruments) and other industrial areas.

Finally, there is no other metal used in jewelry that is attractive, easy to work, and inexpensive. Even if silver increased 10x in price, it would still be the precious metal of choice for rings, necklaces, earrings, pendents etc because even a large ring would use only perhaps 1/10 oz silver costing 1.60$ at today's prices, for a ring costing perhaps 50-100$.

The price of silver is almost inconsequential in most applications because they use such a small amount of it, so it will be a very inelastic commodity (ie. demand will not decrease much with increase in price).

If the dollar tanks, precious metals will not tank because they have intrinsic value. So, if the dollar is devalued 100x, then silver will simply be priced 100x higher in devalued US dollars. It will be worth no more or less than before, all other things being equal.

What are you betting on vision-master? Assuming there is no Mad Max scenario (in which case no financial instrument will have meaning anyway), can you think of a better alternative to preserve wealth for the future?

Cheers,
some_math_guy

[ColossalContrarian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')slo, if the dollar tanks I'm willing to bet it will have more barting power than paper greenbacks.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('some_math_guy', 'S')ilver is used in small amounts for the following:

Coinage

[ColossalContrarian]

For me, using Silver (or any precious metal for that matter) is better than me putting my money in a bank and allowing the banksters to use my wealth to make themselves wealthier.

If you don't support the banksters you can stop doing business with them by getting out of debt and finding another store of wealth.

I obviously need a bank account for day-to-day reasons but I will never allow that bank account to go over $5000 because I feel there are better places to put my money than in the banksters pockets.

I don't have a lot of money anyway so where $5000 could be peanuts to many people, it's a decent chunk of money to me.

[Pretorian]

I find it hilarious when people say that everything will be so bad that there will be no governmental pensions but yet industrial demand for silver will be higher than it ever was in history. of mankind. Make your pick, you can't have both. You want to speculate on silver and get other people onto the train be my guest, but at least don't call it investment so they don't know that you you have no idea of what investment is.

[PrestonSturges]

A prudent approach is to put no more than 20% into precious metal - virtual silver may go bye-bye, real silver might get stolen or melted in a fire.

[ColossalContrarian]

I've got a fun game we can play, it's called switch the commodity.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'I') find it hilarious when people say that everything will be so bad that there will be no governmental pensions but yet industrial demand forsilver oil will be higher than it ever was in history. of mankind. Make your pick, you can't have both. You want to speculate on silver oil and get other people onto the train be my guest, but at least don't call it investment so they don't know that you you have no idea of what investment is.

[ColossalContrarian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'A') prudent approach is to put no more than 20% into precious metal - virtual silver may go bye-bye, real silver might get stolen or melted in a fire.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hat are you betting on vision-master? Assuming there is no Mad Max scenario (in which case no financial instrument will have meaning anyway), can you think of a better alternative to preserve wealth for the future?

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'I') find it hilarious when people say that everything will be so bad that there will be no governmental pensions but yet industrial demand for silver will be higher than it ever was in history. of mankind. Make your pick, you can't have both. You want to speculate on silver and get other people onto the train be my guest, but at least don't call it investment so they don't know that you you have no idea of what investment is.

[some_math_guy]

Silver doesn't need to be in higher demand than ever before to cause massive price moves upwards; merely keeping demand flat or even declining while supply decreases dramatically will be sufficient to send the price to the moon. In 2000 in California for example, a temporary 5% natural gas shortfall caused a 400% increase in price. A 20% disruption in refined fuel capacity following Hurricane Katrina caused the price of fuel to increase by more than 50%, etc.

You also argue that jewelry and photography are not necessary, but I would argue that the hundreds of millions of women who wear jewelry and use film will still want the benefit of those goods. Remember, the price of silver is almost irrelevant in terms of demand, as silver comprises an insignificant proportion of the overall cost of most any item that uses it. For example, while silver prices quintupled over the past 8 years, Kodac only raised global analog film prices by 5%, and made a big deal about having to do it. And I think that the 5 billion or so people who have never even seen a digital camera or computer will still be wanting to get their picture taken sometime in their lives, so standard film will be in demand for a long, long time to come.

With respect to government pensions, many publicly-traded companies have frozen or closed down their defined-benefit pension plans to new employees over the past few years, recognizing that the company will soon be required to fund pension liabilities at a massive loss year after year due to poor investment returns - never mind the challenges they will have once global energy problems become endemic and investment returns turn permanently negative. 190 companies on the Fortune 1000 list now have a frozen defined benefit pension plan, compared with only 45 companies six years ago. If the need to shut down pension plans could happen to (arguably) the best-run companies in the world, why couldn't it happen to some of the poorest-run (ie. governments)?

So, since I still have some hope that it may be some time before civilization descends into a mob of zombie-killing, gun-toting freaks, I'm going to keep saving in silver.

Cheers,
some_math_guy

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ColossalContrarian', 'I')'ve got a fun game we can play, it's called switch the commodity.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'I') find it hilarious when people say that everything will be so bad that there will be no governmental pensions but yet industrial demand forsilver oil will be higher than it ever was in history. of mankind. Make your pick, you can't have both. You want to speculate on silver oil and get other people onto the train be my guest, but at least don't call it investment so they don't know that you you have no idea of what investment is.