by vision-master » Mon 10 Aug 2009, 22:38:16
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OutOfGas', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'S')o, your going to trade a silver bar for some food items?
That's the way it has always worked. People have always been ready to die for gold and silver.
But are we entering something totaly different this time?
by Pretorian » Tue 11 Aug 2009, 04:16:34
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kjmclark', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'I') find it hilarious when people say that everything will be so bad that there will be no governmental pensions but yet industrial demand for silver will be higher than it ever was in history. of mankind. Make your pick, you can't have both. You want to speculate on silver and get other people onto the train be my guest, but at least don't call it investment so they don't know that you you have no idea of what investment is.
Whew. We're having an imagination problem here today. Again, a fairly common counter-example: something known as
inflation. There are lots of good articles out there on the web about it.
While I'm at it, here's another:
war. As in "we need silver for military purposes, so hand it over" and "we need
temporary funding assistance, so we're temporarily confiscating your government pension fund, but don't worry, we've always paid it back in the past." And yes, the federal government has raided the G and F funds a handful of times recently for
temporary funding needs.
You're right though, that it's more likely that the account will be there, just not worth much, while the dollar crashes and commodity prices skyrocket in dollar terms. That's just basic dollar devaluation.
how does this refute anything that i said there?
by kjmclark » Tue 11 Aug 2009, 07:28:53
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'h')ow does this refute anything that i said there?
Well, you wrote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'I') find it hilarious when people say that everything will be so bad that there will be no governmental pensions but yet industrial demand for silver will be higher than it ever was in history. of mankind. Make your pick, you can't have both.
So I gave you two situations where government employee pensions could be worthless but silver would be in great demand. Those were inflation, and war. I noted somewhere else that dollar devaluation might have the same effect.
by Pretorian » Tue 11 Aug 2009, 16:45:38
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kjmclark', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'h')ow does this refute anything that i said there?
Well, you wrote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'I') find it hilarious when people say that everything will be so bad that there will be no governmental pensions but yet industrial demand for silver will be higher than it ever was in history. of mankind. Make your pick, you can't have both.
So I gave you two situations where government employee pensions could be worthless but silver would be in great demand. Those were inflation, and war. I noted somewhere else that dollar devaluation might have the same effect.
Sorry but no, it doesn't come even close. If you take war , silver is by far not as essential as copper or nickel. Not even world war 3 with every country participating will match current industrial demand for silver let alone exceed it. In fact it will reduce it drastically as no one will have monies to buy silverware, jewelry, make film photographs, useless memorial coins ets. Again if the state will be destitute enough to not being able to pay pensions to
governmental employees it will mean total and absolute poverty of population which again leads to destruction of demand.
Plus, what do you think happened with all that silver that was mined in the last 6000 years? Do you think it has a half-life or something? I can dig in my draws a little and make you a silver ring with silver that was mined 2500 years ago. I have a silver chain that was made around 200 AD. Good as new. So? How much silver do you need to survive? Per day, per year?
If you take (global) inflation in count, it will reduce the demand for silver as people will be poorer. Again, if you want to hedge , why silver? You can pick pretty much anything be that honey , salt , knives, diapers or glass beads and have same result or better.
I'm not saying of course that silver has no potential for
speculation but overpaying 30-40% over spot jsut because the silver round says "USA" does not lead anywhere but loss.
Such fixation on silver&gold of many forum members reminds me of a popular and fascinating by its ridiculousness " Iraqi dinar investment" scam. You should be familiar with it as you mentioned you've been in Iraq.
by Arsenal » Tue 11 Aug 2009, 18:56:41
Gold and silver have always been worth something. Since we started using it as money it has held more value than any other form of money. I won't argue why I think silver and gold will be a beneficial item to have in your preps but you are trying to buck history. Thousands of years of history and you still don't see the facts. FIAT will always return to its original value.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'P')lus, what do you think happened with all that silver that was mined in the last 6000 years? Do you think it has a half-life or something?
Well. Since it has been used in just about every electronic device in some small form..... Motherboards, cell phones, etc... There is no profitable way to recycle it at this time so it sits in landfills. If you have the time to wait a couple thousand of years, you might start digging in old landfills but until then it is consumed. Millions of ounces are consumed each year. 30.98% in the form of silver nitrate and silver halides, 20.03% was used in jewelry, 38.51% for industrial uses, and only 3.5% for coins and medals in 2007 of the 894.5 million ounces of silver in supply.
So buy all the mittens, copper, whatever the f&%^ you think will be worth something but leave your BS at the door. The above is facts. Cold and hard facts. What you bring is speculation.
If the American people ever allow the banks to control issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers occupied. T Jefferson
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by Pretorian » Tue 11 Aug 2009, 20:31:49
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Arsenal', 'G')old and silver have always been worth something.
as were glass beads and toilet paper.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Arsenal', 'S')ince we started using it as money it has held more value than any other form of money. I won't argue why I think silver and gold will be a beneficial item to have in your preps but you are trying to buck history. Thousands of years of history and you still don't see the facts.
Beg your pardon? Facts? Sounds like you've heard something about History. Any fresh gossips about silver prices in Ancient Egypt, Greek Egypt, Roman Egypt, Byzantine Egypt, Mamluk Egypt, Turkish Egypt, British Egypt, ets? No? Any idea about prices in ancient Greece, Carthage and Rome? Not really, huh?
by Arsenal » Wed 12 Aug 2009, 08:05:25
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'a')s were glass beads and toilet paper.
And are they still? Hmm.. Lets compare how many years silver/gold are used as currency against glass beads. In fact, I will make you a deal. I will send you 10 glass beads if you send me 10 1oz Gold Eagles.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'B')eg your pardon? Facts? Sounds like you've heard something about History. Any fresh gossips about silver prices in Ancient Egypt, Greek Egypt, Roman Egypt, Byzantine Egypt, Mamluk Egypt, Turkish Egypt, British Egypt, ets? No? Any idea about prices in ancient Greece, Carthage and Rome? Not really, huh?
Fresh gossips about silver from ancient civilizations. Come on. Funny thing is almost all those civilizations you mentioned used gold and silver for eons. Silver, in the form of electrum (a gold-silver alloy), was coined to produce money in around 700 BCE. So if you can add, please tell me how many years silver/gold has been used as money vs your freaking glass beads and TP. If you paid for an education please ask for a refund.
If the American people ever allow the banks to control issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers occupied. T Jefferson
