[jeezlouise]

At the BP near my house, on the roof that covers the gas pumps there are rows and rows of what, if I didn't know better, look just like solar panels- tilted rectangles a few feet long. I don't know what they actually are, but if BP is really serious about moving "beyond petroleum" into alternative energy it seems like this would be a good place to start. If anyone could afford a massive number of solar panels it'd be an oil company.

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jeezlouise', 'A')t the BP near my house, on the roof that covers the gas pumps there are rows and rows of what, if I didn't know better, look just like solar panels- tilted rectangles a few feet long. I don't know what they actually are, but if BP is really serious about moving "beyond petroleum" into alternative energy it seems like this would be a good place to start. If anyone could afford a massive number of solar panels it'd be an oil company.

[formandfile]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jeezlouise', 'A')t the BP near my house, on the roof that covers the gas pumps there are rows and rows of what, if I didn't know better, look just like solar panels- tilted rectangles a few feet long. I don't know what they actually are, but if BP is really serious about moving "beyond petroleum" into alternative energy it seems like this would be a good place to start. If anyone could afford a massive number of solar panels it'd be an oil company.

[AmericanEmpire]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')es, gas stations are dependent on the grid.

[strider3700]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jeezlouise', 'A')t the BP near my house, on the roof that covers the gas pumps there are rows and rows of what, if I didn't know better, look just like solar panels- tilted rectangles a few feet long. I don't know what they actually are, but if BP is really serious about moving "beyond petroleum" into alternative energy it seems like this would be a good place to start. If anyone could afford a massive number of solar panels it'd be an oil company.

[pup55]

a. During the famed 2003 northeast blackout, I was south of Toronto, and basically 99% of the gas stations were totally down, with cars sitting around them because idiots that had been diving around on E decided to hunker down and wait for the power to come back on rather than run out on the road somewhere.

b. It's not a problem if you are set up for it. Just build the tanks above ground, above car level, and use gravity feed. You put a pump on the delivery truck and pump the gas up into the tank when it is delivered. When the customers buy gas, there is a meter on there that tells them how much they got.

Anyway, I think gas is more likely to run out before electricity, but as in the case above, you never know.

[Josh]

Hi, I work at a gas station and a loss of power would put us out of business, but I guess we could always hook up a generator because there are a few thousand gallons of diesel fuel sitting around all the time. Or we could throw up some solar panels on the big, flat roof. I think without electricity we would have bigger problems though. All the infrastructure that gets the gas from the oil field to the tank probably needs electricity to run. Also coordinating a business nowadays means phone calls, computer reports, monitoring devices, etc, lots of things that use electricity. How would we tell the oil terminal that the station needed more gas without electricity to make a phone call? Send them a letter? Plus even if we could stay open wihout electicity many other businesses couldnt, so who would have money to buy gas?

Anyway, if there was no electricity we would have bigger problems than whether the gas station worked or not.

[pea-jay]

Electricity is vital to both ends of the gasoline chain. As stated above, you need it to run the pumps (and computers that control and track purchases). Worst case you could do with out payment systems, take cash and run the pumps. The thing is, I have seen a few of these stations when I lived in CA. I know the status of the state grid is stressed and will become more so as time goes on. I dont know if those units are battery backed up though. If they are not and the power fails into evening or nights, YOU STILL ARENT GOING TO BE ABLE TO PUMP. And therein lies the real significance to a days-long regional collapse of the grid: with no power to run gas stations, all long distance travel ceases pretty quickly. I mean, if your tank will let you go 300 miles before a fill up and the power is out for 600 miles, now how are you going to do that? Id like to think the solar panels are going to be an answer to this, but without some backup for the backup, its not going to happen.

Just as important, electricity is VITAL to the refining of Oil into gasoline and other products. I had a good conversation with an SCE planner last year and he told me that refiners are some of the utility's largest customers, taking the electricity at the 220KV level. Constant power is required for this task and a single power failure can lead to this:


Emergency refinery flaring. Not only is it polluting, its wasteful. After the power comes back on, it can take a day or more to restart the refinery. So if power is regularly being interrupted to refiners, you can bet the amount of finished gas and diesel will decline. With markets stretch tight, that translates to a quick local gas spike.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pea-jay', 'I') mean, if your tank will let you go 300 miles before a fill up and the power is out for 600 miles, now how are you going to do that? Id like to think the solar panels are going to be an answer to this, but without some backup for the backup, its not going to happen.

[deafskeptic]

While storing gas in an aparment or home sounds like a good idea, what happens if a fire starts? You could be opening yourself to all sort of lawsuits. If you put it in the luggae compartment of the car, I shudder to think of what could happen in a heat wave or if you get rear ended.

It is possible that the landlord has a clause against it and that could cost you your lease if you're a renter. A few years ago, lightning struck my apartment and most of the second story was destroyed. Stuff like this isn't likely to happen but it could happen to you. I'd hate to think of what would happen if the lady upstair stored gas. I'd rather keep my car tank full for emergenics like that.

http://injury.findlaw.com/defective-dan ... 79034.html

[deafskeptic]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pea-jay', 'E')lectricity is vital to both ends of the gasoline chain. As stated above, you need it to run the pumps (and computers that control and track purchases). Worst case you could do with out payment systems, take cash and run the pumps. The thing is, I have seen a few of these stations when I lived in CA. I know the status of the state grid is stressed and will become more so as time goes on. I dont know if those units are battery backed up though. --snip-- Emergency refinery flaring. Not only is it polluting, its wasteful. After the power comes back on, it can take a day or more to restart the refinery. So if power is regularly being interrupted to refiners, you can bet the amount of finished gas and diesel will decline. With markets stretch tight, that translates to a quick local gas spike.

[EnergyUnlimited]

Deafskeptic, I think we are still talking about THEORETICAL situations, as lights are still on, petrol stations in general are working, and there is no need to store large propane/butane cylinders on your (or my) attic.

For me it may be quite easy to propose solutions difficult/tricky to many others (I am a landlord of free standing property with reasonable surrounding land and no mortgage agreement at all). For this reason it would be easy to me to store some fuel here or there with no fear of lawyers etc. If worst come to worst, insurers would not pay for damages and thats it.

In respect of travel through 600 miles "dark zone", I had offered a reasonable way to proceed with it. Again I own my car with no hire-purchase agreement, loan security or anything similar on it. There is a risk in carrying gasoline carnisters in your boot, but it would be hardly possible to complete this journey otherwise. Anyway you DO NOT undertake travel through 600 miles "dark zone" UNLESS ESSENTIAL. If you do - it is your own risk. RETURN from unlucky family holliday is a good reason (you HAVE TO return home), but going out is NOT.

In respect of various safety rules etc. In real emergency (long lasting energy shortages etc) the most successful would be those WHO BREAK THOSE RULES REGARDLESS.
I believe, that much of current SAFETY legislation would be FIRST to be disregarded by public, government and (later) courts, should real emergency (say rampant power shortages) occur.

[pea-jay]

Well, I suppose there are other alternatives to grid-electricity operated pumps. The gas station could power one or two of their pumps with a little portable generator which runs off of gasoline or diesel. I mean how much electricity does it take to pump gas in the first place. (not how much does the station as a whole use, just the essential pumping action).

[jeezlouise]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', '
')Why don't you go there and ask them? It will be interesting to know if BP are doing that.

[Leanan]

Richard Duncan has issued an Olduvai update. It is in the form three small PDFs, hosted at MediaFire:
http://www.mediafire.com/?bj2nu42zdem

http://www.mediafire.com/?7mnudk1tndd

http://www.mediafire.com/?9ztqeymnimi

[EnergyUnlimited]

Would be interesting to read, but links are not working (at least on my computer).

[killJOY]

Just put your fingers in your ears, or turn the channel.

Creepy doomer porn, that's all.

How about that dead Anna what's her name? There's news for ye...

/sarcasm

[Leanan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', 'W')ould be interesting to read, but links are not working (at least on my computer).

[chris-h]

Yes i am sure that Russia and SA will expirience an imminent decline if the price goes to $500 :sarcasm:

[eastbay]

In the short-term there will be a few winners among the many who will lose so very much.