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PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

THE Matthew Simmons Thread pt 3 (merged)

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: Simmon's Latest Presentation

Unread postby Twilight » Thu 10 Jul 2008, 19:27:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Peleg', 'P')O is becoming the type of thing you dare not speak about above a whisper if you want to be a career track person.

Very true. Dealing with it without naming it. Sums it up really.
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The high priest of “peak oil” thinks...

Unread postby allenwrench » Thu 10 Jul 2008, 20:38:20

The high priest of “peak oil” thinks world oil output can now only decline

http://www.economist.com/people/display ... d=11702995

Nice the Econ is printing the words PO. I wrote them last year and nothing. Better late than never

But why call names Econ...High priest??

Dismissing peak oil as 'just a theory' is an easy and quick way to rebut PO.

If the question is when we will peak - yes we can only theorize.

If the question is if we will peak - then it is not a theory and only a question of time.

No one knows the exact peak date for world oil production, but we do know that time will come in the not so distant future. But finding the peak is not hard problem once we can look back on it by a few years...but we need some time to do it...again, only time will settle this debate.

And the possibility may be that we find another big discovery and the peak dates look more like a double top stock market chart than the drop over a cliff.

Image

But all this does not really matter. The bottom line is we are running out of crude no matter how the hard the spin doctors try to masturbate the facts.

The fact that 'we have to estimate' reserves or useful life of anything says that the item in question does not have an infinite supply or life span.

I never argue with persons claiming that we have peaked already or others that claim the peak is 20 years away. To me they are both on the same page, just looking at different paragraphs.

But the person that thinks that the world can go on forever using 31,000,000,000 barrels a year of crude and never have to pay the bill with the eventual depletion of fossil fuels is just plain wrong.

"If the public does think briefly about future oil supplies, the question usually asked is, "How long will oil last?" This is the wrong question. Oil will be extracted in some insignificant quantity perhaps 200 years from now. The critical question is: When does the peak of world oil production occur?" ~ Richard C. Duncan

Image
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Re: The high priest of “peak oil” thinks...

Unread postby copious.abundance » Thu 10 Jul 2008, 20:41:58

What else do you expect Matt Simmons to say?
Stuff for doomers to contemplate:
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1190117.html#p1190117
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1206767.html#p1206767
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Re: The high priest of “peak oil” thinks...

Unread postby FrankRichards » Thu 10 Jul 2008, 20:58:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', 'W')hat else do you expect Matt Simmons to say?


I just have to ask. What fraction of the planetary mass do you think is hydrocarbons, and what do you think is the maximum extraction rate?
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Re: The high priest of “peak oil” thinks...

Unread postby Daniel_Plainview » Thu 10 Jul 2008, 21:35:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('allenwrench', '
')But why call names Econ...High priest??


Yeah, I prefer "The God of Peak Oil"
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Re: The high priest of “peak oil” thinks...

Unread postby copious.abundance » Thu 10 Jul 2008, 21:41:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FrankRichards', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', 'W')hat else do you expect Matt Simmons to say?


I just have to ask. What fraction of the planetary mass do you think is hydrocarbons, and what do you think is the maximum extraction rate?

Don't know. All I know is, Matt Simmons has good reason to continue preaching his gospel.
Stuff for doomers to contemplate:
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1190117.html#p1190117
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1206767.html#p1206767
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Re: The high priest of “peak oil” thinks...

Unread postby Serial_Worrier » Thu 10 Jul 2008, 22:41:44

He's totally right. $200/bbl is coming in 2010. A world economy in smoldering ruins. God, I really miss the "$300/bbl = world economy in smoldering ruins" sticky thread.
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Re: The high priest of “peak oil” thinks...

Unread postby kpeavey » Thu 10 Jul 2008, 22:48:28

Simmons is the De Facto spokesman for Peak Oil
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--for ever."
-George Orwell, 1984
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twenty centuries of stony sleep were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle, and what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
-George Yeats
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Re: The high priest of “peak oil” thinks...

Unread postby BigTex » Thu 10 Jul 2008, 22:51:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FrankRichards', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', 'W')hat else do you expect Matt Simmons to say?


I just have to ask. What fraction of the planetary mass do you think is hydrocarbons, and what do you think is the maximum extraction rate?

Don't know. All I know is, Matt Simmons has good reason to continue preaching his gospel.


That's an interesting article. Thanks for the link.

I wonder if that guy is as smug today as he was back in 2005.

Oil was $65 a barrel when he wrote that.
:)
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Re: The high priest of “peak oil” thinks...

Unread postby CrudeAwakening » Fri 11 Jul 2008, 02:09:39

It's kind of ironic that followers of Julian Simon promulgate the idea that lower prices of commodities indicate increasing abundance, but won't accept the corollary that higher prices indicate increasing scarcity.
"Who knows what the Second Law of Thermodynamics will be like in a hundred years?" - Economist speaking during planning for World Population Conference in early 1970s
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Re: The high priest of “peak oil” thinks...

Unread postby Nano » Fri 11 Jul 2008, 04:32:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('allenwrench', 'B')ut all this does not really matter. The bottom line is we are running out of crude no matter how the hard the spin doctors try to masturbate the facts.


"masturbate the facts"? Freudian slip, right? Don't you mean 'emasculate' or something like that?

But seriously. Peak Oil is interpreted in two different ways:

You have the doomers who think that peak oil will be caused by supply: "Oh shit we need cheap oil, but there isn't any more!"

And you have the cornucopeans who think peak oil will be caused by demand: "Who cares about oil anyway? We have cheap alternatives now."

So the key is that even if we all may agree on imminent peak oil, we may not agree that it is a huge problem. So if you think convincing people that "peak oil is nigh" is difficult, wait till you try to get them to understand how dangerous that is. Basically, that's a whole new discussion in my experience.
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Re: The high priest of “peak oil” thinks...

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Fri 11 Jul 2008, 10:06:54

I prefer "High Priest"...lends a picture of a robed figure leading the ignorant masses down a particular road....rightly or wrongly.

"God" conjures up an image of someone who could actually affect the situation.
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Re: The high priest of “peak oil” thinks...

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Fri 11 Jul 2008, 10:13:47

Serial_Worrier,

I'll go back to my old harp: might not be physically possible to have the global economy "in smoldering ruins" and $200/bbl.

The last time (1986) the global economy was "in smoldering ruins" oil went to $10/bbl.

But this isn't 1986 and PO wasn't looking them in the eyeballs back then. The demand destruction/PO race is on: place your bets ladies and gentlemen.
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Re: The high priest of “peak oil” thinks...

Unread postby allenwrench » Sat 12 Jul 2008, 10:13:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Nano', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('allenwrench', 'B')ut all this does not really matter. The bottom line is we are running out of crude no matter how the hard the spin doctors try to masturbate the facts.


"masturbate the facts"? Freudian slip, right? Don't you mean 'emasculate' or something like that?

But seriously. Peak Oil is interpreted in two different ways:

You have the doomers who think that peak oil will be caused by supply: "Oh crap we need cheap oil, but there isn't any more!"

And you have the cornucopeans who think peak oil will be caused by demand: "Who cares about oil anyway? We have cheap alternatives now."

So the key is that even if we all may agree on imminent peak oil, we may not agree that it is a huge problem. So if you think convincing people that "peak oil is nigh" is difficult, wait till you try to get them to understand how dangerous that is. Basically, that's a whole new discussion in my experience.






There are some 'partial' alternatives, but most are not cheap and none of the alternatives are a seamless exchange for crude.

Such as being able to drive for 40 miles on a change with an electric car. But in reality, we may only be able to go 30 miles and still must leave some juice in the batteries for a reserve. And when we run the useless battery powered A/C, heater and defogger it will cut the ride down even more.

And what about the 600 mile day trips to the beach? On pure electric cars do we take 20 days to get there? If the beach is out, what will happens to the thousands of motels on the route...the restaurants and all the other business dependent on the pilgrimage?

When the cornucopians can pave roads and make roofing shingles out of corn instead of asphalt and make tires out of sewage sludge instead of crude maybe their time will have arrived.
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Re: The high priest of “peak oil” thinks...

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 13 Jul 2008, 17:58:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ROCKMAN', '
')
The last time (1986) the global economy was "in smoldering ruins" oil went to $10/bbl.


The last time we hadn't reached the peak of oil production yet, so the oil supply was in excess of demand and most people thought supply would ALWAYS be in excess of demand.

Now the oil supply is shrinking, and more and more people understand that the supply of oil is limited......and it will NEVER again exceed demand.
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Re: The high priest of “peak oil” thinks...

Unread postby jdumars » Sun 13 Jul 2008, 19:14:23

Man, that article is the only thing you could come up with to try and "discredit" Simmons? :roll:

Have you read Twilight in the Desert?
Dismantle globally, renew locally!
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New Simmons slideshow on PO and economic collapse

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 26 Dec 2008, 18:14:36

Revi found this and we both agreed it deserved a thread of its own. I was glad to see a somewhat more detailed analysis from this grandfather (or midwife?) of PO.

Simmons slideshow

mos (at least) should chime in with his well articulated counter-analysis.
Last edited by Ferretlover on Sun 24 May 2009, 15:50:07, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Merged with THE Matthew Simmons Thread pt 3.
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Re: New Simmons slideshow on PO and economic collapse

Unread postby mos6507 » Fri 26 Dec 2008, 19:03:33

Matt used to be on the news on a regular basis as our chosen Peak Oil prophet but since he overlooked the credit crisis he's going to have to spend some time in the doghouse. I am not interested in his slideshows right now.

I think people are NOT going to be very receptive to the peak oil topic for some time. They may be concerned about global warming or dependence on "foreign" oil, but peak oil will become a fringe topic once again until the next super-spike.

Now is the time to take advantage of the lull and prep as best you can. It's no longer time to raise awareness by talking about $4 gas around the watercooler.
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