THE Karl Rove Thread (merged)

by **some_guy282** » Sat 02 Jul 2005, 01:36:56

Interesting indeed. The question is what are the ramifications of this? Does Bush have the guts to grant Rove a pardon?

by **bart** » Sat 02 Jul 2005, 02:43:37

This is news indeed, Carrie! Get the news here first on Peakoil.com! I thought that the Plume scandal had been hushed up, and that we'd never hear anything more about it, like the many other scandals during the Bush years. But no, here it is again. And if Rove is the leak... wow. He's "Bush's Brain," they say, at least when it comes to winning elections and stayng in power.

My guess is that if damaging revelations begin to come out, one of two things could happen:
1. Many more revelations will follow and the public will turn against Bush and the neo-cons.
2. The Bush administration will do something extreme to stay in power.

by **MicroHydro** » Sat 02 Jul 2005, 03:32:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bart', 'T')he Bush administration will do something extreme to stay in power.

by **bart** » Sat 02 Jul 2005, 04:02:45

Well MicroHydro, you have access to more sources than I do to make those claims.
I do think when the Bush people leave power:
1. Many secrets will come out.
2. Many things that were suspected will turn out to be true.
3. Many things we know about will be seen in a new light.

Let's look at your list then and see what the evidence says.
What "extreme measures" might Bush take to remain in power? Declare an emergency and claim emergency powers. Overtly defy the Constitution. Begin widespread repression. Many examples of this in the history books, when rulers leave legitimacy behind.
For all our sakes, I hope this never happens.

by **Leanan** » Sat 02 Jul 2005, 07:18:50

I'm not sure the Bush people will leave power.

No, I'm not one of those who think Dubya will annoint himself emperor or anything like that. But the GOP has a solid majority in both wings of Congress, and a good chance of winning the White House again. (President Jeb Bush, anyone?) Scandals only come out when at least one wing of Congress is controlled by the opposition party.

I'm really worried about the direction our country is taking, and I suspect oil is part of it. No one will ever say so outright, but I suspect part of the reason we've gotten so partisan is economic. There's less to go around, and for that reason, people are getting meaner. Less tolerant, less generous, less willing to put up with views different from their own. This will only get worse as oil prices keep rising.

If we follow the pattern, as we get closer and closer to collapse, there will be stricter and stricter controls over the population. Think Communist Cuba. Though it looks like rather than going extreme left, we'll be going extreme right. The rise of the American Taliban.

by **killJOY** » Sat 02 Jul 2005, 07:43:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')efine extreme. Already they have:
Murdered Mel Carnahan 2000
Stolen rigged 2000 election
Murdered 3000 people in the US on 9/11, framed patsy Islamists
Deleted US constitution with Patriot Act
Mailed anthrax to Dan Rather and Tom Daschle
Launched war of conquest vs Afghanistan under false pretext
Began unauthorized Iraq war of conquest in secret May 2002
Murdered Paul Wellstone 2002
Stolen rigged elections in Minnesota and Georgia 2002
Conquered Iraq with napalm, DU, nerve gas and cluster bombs
Established gulag where 30,000 people are held without trial and tortured
Raped and destroyed Fallujah, worst war crime since WWII
Stolen rigged 2004 election
Murdered Gary Webb with two bullet head shot 'suicide'
Established secret police force under 1980s war criminal Negroponte

by **Sys1** » Sat 02 Jul 2005, 08:54:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')ell, at least they didn't gas their own people....

by **EnemyCombatant** » Sat 02 Jul 2005, 10:05:41

If you want to be technical, Kurds are not Arabs. And Saddam used WMD he got from the US and Europe. But it doesn't matter, using WMD on any human being is evil.

Don't be so sure Leanan. Lawmakers aim to repeal 22nd Amendment link

by **some_guy282** » Sat 02 Jul 2005, 13:06:26

I'm not getting excited about this yet. It's still quite possible this thing can be hushed up, and it wouldn't surprise me if it did happen.

To my understanding, the investigation looking into this has known for nearly a year who it was that leaked the name. Other reporters were called before the grand jury and questioned. Only Judith Miller and Matt Cooper are being threatened with jail time. Why? Because all the other reporters cooperated and told who their source was, be it Rove, Libby, Cheney, or whoever... Tim Russert of Meet the Press fame is one of them that I know of. He was one of the reporters contacted by the source, but he also chose not to write the story. He was questioned by the grand jury, and went home scot free.

It bears mentioning that the investigation is being headed by a Bush apointee. It's entirely possible Time will give the documents to the grand jury, and we'll never hear anything about it ever again. Let's not forget, that although this information is out there in the public domain, it's not in the mainstream yet. So far this information is limited to a relatively small number of people on the internet. When we see headlines like "Rove named as source of CIA agent leak" blasted all over the likes of CNN, FOX NEWS, and the NY TIMES, then the pressure is really on and it'll be interesting to see what happens next, to say the least. Until then however, I wouldn't be surprised for this to all be forgotten. Even if Rove (or someone else) is named and indicted, don't count on them going to prison until they're in their new orange pajamas. As long as the media lets him get away with it - Bush can do anything. Who's to say he doesn't pardon the person? Even if the media does report it, it would probably go unnoticed so long as the pardon is timely. For instance, it could be announced the same day as a new terrorist attack on US soil, or the same day another boy accuses Michael Jackson of molestation.

by **Carrie** » Sat 02 Jul 2005, 13:22:06

some_guy282, It's still not on the major news sites yet, but the story is starting to spread. Since I posted it last night, 6 other small news sites have picked it up. You can find them by doing a search for "Plame" and "Rove" on Google News, and sorting it by date.
Also, the original source has posted an update:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')ow that Time Inc. has turned over documents to federal court, revealing who its reporter, Matt Cooper, identified as his source in the Valerie Plame/CIA case, speculation runs rampant on the name of that source. Lawrence O'Donnell, senior MSNBC political analyst, now claims that at least two sources have confirmed that the name is--top White House mastermind Karl Rove.

O'Donnell first offered this report Friday night on the syndicated McLaughlin Group political talk show. Today, he went beyond that, writing a brief entry at the Huffington Post blog: "I revealed in yesterday's taping of the McLaughlin Group that Time magazine's e-mails will reveal that Karl Rove was Matt Cooper's source. I have known this for months but didn't want to say it at a time that would risk me getting dragged into the grand jury.

"McLaughlin is seen in some markets on Friday night, so some websites have picked it up, including Drudge, but I don't expect it to have much impact because McLaughlin is not considered a news show and it will be pre-empted in the big markets on Sunday because of tennis. "Since I revealed the big scoop, I have had it reconfirmed by yet another highly authoritative source. Too many people know this. It should break wide open this week. I know Newsweek is working on an 'It's Rove!' story and will probably break it tomorrow."

by **OilsNotWell** » Sat 02 Jul 2005, 13:25:21

Micro and Hydro, you both are closer to the truth, IMHO, than anybody else... All this 'investigation' really could be is just another cover-up, squelching every future potential source of an alternative version to 'official' government 'investigation'...getting a handle on exactly who knew what, who knows what, and so forth...It assumes an impartial investigation by Fitzgerald in Chicago... They've had a lot of practice with so-called investigations, commissions, and so forth...

Remember Matt(LATOC) saying this would basically bring down the house of cards in Oct. 04? Hasn't happened has it.

Oh, and Micro, great summary.

by **Carrie** » Sat 02 Jul 2005, 18:23:19

It's on Newsweek now:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')ow the story may be about to take another turn. The e-mails surrendered by Time Inc., which are largely between Cooper and his editors, show that one of Cooper's sources was White House deputy chief of staff Karl Rove, according to two lawyers who asked not to be identified because they are representing witnesses sympathetic to the White House. Cooper and a Time spokeswoman declined to comment. But in an interview with NEWSWEEK, Rove's lawyer, Robert Luskin, confirmed that Rove had been interviewed by Cooper for the article. It is unclear, however, what passed between Cooper and Rove.

by **some_guy282** » Sat 02 Jul 2005, 22:20:11

The article says Rove was "one" of Cooper's sources. Rove is of course denying he told anyone Plame was an undercover agent... This story needs a few more days to play itself out before we can jump to any conclusions. Is it just a coincidence that this story breaks on one of the biggest weekends of the entire year?

by **SidneyTawl** » Sun 03 Jul 2005, 00:04:34

Just dropped in to see what condition, the condition was in. and because no one has posted this yet, I logged in and decided to see if anyone else cares.

This story is nothing but about PO in the long run. Drudge and others are reporting that Karl is the leaker. It has also been said by others

Lawrence O´Donnel on McLaughlin Group: ´I´m probably gonna get pulled into the grand jury for saying this, but it will be revealed in Cooper´s notes that it is Karl Rove who leaked Plame´s identity.

First if Karl is the leaker then who leaked him the info.
The penalty is Ten years, no get back.
Second if he lied to the Grand jury about it. (three times they have called him I believe). Then you can add on that little charge, which is nothing to sneeze at.

If you guys here don't know who V. Plame was and what postion she held and where that company worked (jpast tense because the had to close up after the leak).

She worked for Brewster Jennings, who had developed very close ties to Aramco. It was rumored that Valerie was very close to learning the "true" amount of reserves in Saudi Arabia. If you wish to read more please follow this old linK to M. Rupperts site in which he laid out what he thought might happen. link

Nice refresher, and we will soon find out it seems.
First
Deep Throat decides to out himself. (I just find the timing and "the history" very ironic at the least). At this same time we have memo's making its way into the US press (finally) about the Downing street Memo's then its not just one, its then several. All this for what it was worth only brought up the history etc, of Nixon and watergate.

Now it seems the press and the US public could be handed some information that is truly truly distrubing if they believe it. Some puddings take more time than others. And you have to add the ingredients just right.
Is M.R. correct. is this all a possible "set up" to ala Rope a Dope, and watch the worms squirm.
Stay tuned,
cheers,

by **some_guy282** » Sun 03 Jul 2005, 03:42:14

Actually, this has been posted - here.

by **Leanan** » Sun 03 Jul 2005, 07:39:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'L')awmakers aim to repeal 22nd Amendment

by **Leanan** » Sun 03 Jul 2005, 07:54:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')s it just a coincidence that this story breaks on one of the biggest weekends of the entire year?

by **EnemyCombatant** » Sun 03 Jul 2005, 12:12:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Leanan', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'L')awmakers aim to repeal 22nd Amendment

by **Leanan** » Sun 03 Jul 2005, 15:26:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')linton and Dubya are two sides of the same coin.

by **some_guy282** » Sun 03 Jul 2005, 17:31:21

This story was linked on the front page of the CNN website.

Looks like this is definitly drifting into the mainstream now, but the exposure it's getting is leaving it somewhat ambiguous as to whether Rove was the actual leaker or not, despite admiting he did talk to Cooper before Plame was outed.

Before this week is over we should know whether or not this will blow over, or become a big scandal.

THE Karl Rove Thread (merged)

Karl Rove to be named as leaker of Valerie Plame's CIA role

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