[sparky]

.
@ Fishman
For a few years , I've been playing with the food /energy continuum

The basic hypothesis is that the price of things is the embodiment of the energy needed to produce them ,
the basic unit is the cost of 1500 Kcal of food ,
....enough to keep a worker alive and back the next day
....Marx , common sense and Adam Smith say so ,

with this intake , a laborer can produce ~60 watts of power for eight hours

the fraction of work needed to get a meal is the index of poverty
100 % of a working day means that one is at the lowest sustainable level
in advanced society the share of food in the budget is around 15~20%

food has been very cheap for a couple of century because the in-build energy in farming techniques
this in-build energy has replaced farm laborers , making them " free " for moving off the land and in factories , cheap food made wages low enough to have a surplus of value to invest in more factories

It happened in England in the early 19th century ,the USA later , not too gently in the USSR in the thirties and in China for the last decades
China rise was made possible by the revolution in its farming practices , before its trading revolution

advanced societies are now facing a deep crisis , they do not manufacture enough to generate a surplus
investment has degenerated into the lowest form of finance , government debt trading
it happened in imperial Spain , in the once great Netherlands and is now the biggest market in the Atlantic world + Japan
The price of food is kept low to satisfies the population with increasing subsidies ,
this add to the debt ........

[PhebaAndThePilgrim]

Good evening:
There is another cause of rising food prices that is being ignored. That is the production of ethanol. We are farmers. We live in the center of the corn/cattle belt. Here is what we are seeing.
50% of U.S. corn crop is going for ethanol.
Corn is at an all time high, over $7.00 per bushel.
Actually we went to town the other day to purchase just one small bag of corn.
We needed to entice some reluctant cattle into a lot.
One 50 pound bag of plain corn, not cracked, was over $9.00.
The $9.00 cost is more than a doubling of a bushel of corn in just a few years.
Many farmers used to keep both cattle and raise row crops. During off season cattle grazed in row crops after harvest, spending the winter gleaning the field.
As we travel in our area we are seeing mile after mile of fence row being ripped out.
Farmers are going nuts trying to cash in, not only on ridiculous high prices on corn, but ridiculous subsidies from federal government to raise the stuff.
Farmers are planting fence row to fence row.
Land that is marginal at best, having been in federal CRP (crop protection) programs for years, are being plowed up to raise corn and soybeans.
Every where we travel we are seeing the same thing across our state.
Land that has traditionally been for cattle grazing or in CRP is being plowed up to plant corn.
We raise grass fed beef, relying on intensive management grazing. We started the transition a few years ago when we saw where the ethanol mess was heading.
We recently took two of our cattle to sale barn. We were amazed at the high dollars the animals brought.
Increased ethanol production and increased fuel costs are going to send the cost of meat and dairy through the roof. At least that is how I see it.
Ethanol is evil!
Pheba.

[timmac]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PhebaAndThePilgrim', 'G')ood evening:
There is another cause of rising food prices that is being ignored. That is the production of ethanol. We are farmers. We live in the center of the corn/cattle belt. Here is what we are seeing.
50% of U.S. corn crop is going for ethanol.
Corn is at an all time high, over $7.00 per bushel.
Actually we went to town the other day to purchase just one small bag of corn.
We needed to entice some reluctant cattle into a lot.
One 50 pound bag of plain corn, not cracked, was over $9.00.
The $9.00 cost is more than a doubling of a bushel of corn in just a few years.

Increased ethanol production and increased fuel costs are going to send the cost of meat and dairy through the roof. At least that is how I see it.
Ethanol is evil!
Pheba.

[careinke]

Hi Pheba,

Nice to see you around again. Welcome back

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('timmac', 'B')etter get your facts straight before blaming ethanol..

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')n top of this, the “food and fuel” debate reached near hysteria
toward the end of 2007, throughout 2008 and well into 2009.
Ethanol was targeted as the culprit for rising food prices, with
little attention paid to the facts (such as the
significant impact of petroleum-based energy
costs at every stage of food production and
distribution) — or to what is really happening
in American agriculture today.
As commodity prices have returned closer to
norms prior to the dramatic speculation-driven
increase, we need to take a deep breath and
understand the truth. We are meeting the
increase in demand for fuel, while feeding
more people through exports — and unleashing technology in
every aspect of corn production. American farmers are using less
land to produce more corn — continuing a 50-year trend of
more bushels per acre (Fig.1). And there is every reason to
believe this trend will continue.

[PhebaAndThePilgrim]

Sorry friend, but I respectfully disagree. We are on the ground, in farm country. We see physically what is happening. Farmers are extending every square inch of land to raise corn. We have been driving past CRP fields and cattle grazing fields for many decades. Now all of a sudden, this land is being ripped up to raise corn.
Most of this land is not fit to raise corn. Low fertility, low level of topsoil.
Not only is land being tilled up for corn, but farmers are utilizing every square inch.
Many that formerly raised both cattle and crops are getting out of cattle because there is more profit in corn production, and because corn is going up in cost to feed to the cattle.
We recently drove from center of Missouri all the way across state to Kansas City. Instead of taking 70 highway, we took a scenic route just north of 70.
All along the trip we saw cattle fence rows being ripped out to plant corn and soybeans. We actually saw very few fields with cattle in them.
We are in an area with quite a few "megafarmers". Gigantic outfits that work thousands of acres. On the way to the town of Fulton is a large area that has been in CRP for decades. There is a lot of burning going on right now in that area. We are seeing mile after mile of tree windbreak being bulldozed and burned, while CRP fields are being burned off to prepare for plowing.
The Pilgrim follows cattle and grain markets carefully. The two are so connected. Ethanol is not an answer to our energy problem.
All I can figure is that right now CRP payments are nowhere near as profitable as corn production. Even with input costs that are staggering corn is more profitable than CRP. The cost of synthetic fertilizers has more than doubled in last 7 years. We no longer use synthetics. Our minor use for cattle went from 2,300.00 per hundred acres to over 8,000.00 per hundred acres in past 7 years.
Corn was running over 20 thousand to fertilize 100 acres. That was two years ago. I do not know what it is running now since we no longer buy it.
It takes a lot of oil to raise 100 acres of corn.
Pheba.

[eXpat]

Uganda Opposition Leader Shot By Police; Food Riots Escalate
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'K')AMPALA, Uganda -(Dow Jones)- Uganda's main opposition leader was shot by police as they tried to arrest him during a protest in the capital over escalating food and fuel prices, witnesses said Thursday.

Veteran opposition leader Kizza Besigye was admitted to hospital after being hit in the arm early Thursday, according to Alice Alaso, the general secretary of the opposition Forum For Democratic Change.

"It was an intentional ruthless shooting," she said.

Witnesses said police shot several protesters who had formed a human shield around Besigye in a bid to avert his arrest. A police spokesman couldn't confirm the incident and police haven't yet released the official list of casualties.

The shooting sparked riots across Kampala, with supporters blocking many roads with burning tires, logs and stones.

[Pretorian]

so whats up with riots?

[eXpat]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 's')o whats up with riots?

[mattduke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')oaring food prices are forcing many Venezuelans to change their eating habits, trim their shopping lists and set aside more of their earnings to feed their families.

The oil-exporting country is coping with one of the highest inflation rates in the world: 22.9 percent as of last month, and food prices are rising even faster.

“It’s gotten 100 percent worse,” said Evelyn Villamizar, a 29-year-old student who is raising a 5-year-old son in a poor barrio of the Venezuelan capital, Caracas. She said she feels “strangled by the prices.”

[Pretorian]

They still got their shops with subsidized prices, free electricity and 20 cents a gallon or something like that gasoline, free healthcare and free education and so on and so forth. People will find something to complain about no matter what you give them. Food prices went up? Well oh horror, do your nails 3 times a month instead of 4, and/or cancel some other bullshit bill you have. Gosh!

[pana_burda]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'T')hey still got their shops with subsidized prices, free electricity and 20 cents a gallon or something like that gasoline, free healthcare and free education and so on and so forth. People will find something to complain about no matter what you give them. Food prices went up? Well oh horror, do your nails 3 times a month instead of 4, and/or cancel some other bullshit bill you have. Gosh!

[Pretorian]

Dude, I strained my eyes trying to find a malnurished specimen on those pics. Or on any other pic I saw in the news from Venezuela. A bunch of kids, eating free food. A girl eating a piece of good bread. Oh wait what's that in the bread? ham? Yeah looks like a disaster to me. Starvation my ass.

Btw, we have a forum member who is a farmer and RE owner in Venezuela. He is a very rich guy, lived there for 15+ years and had never seen an electricity bill. ACs with open doors and windows is a way of life in Venezuela, according to him. But you surely know better than him, dont you

[pana_burda]

Since this issue touches some of pdvsa`s little dirty secrets, I think I might as well leave it here for you to see.

http://www.globovision.com/news.php?nid=189987

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '&')quot;Señor Presidente, PDVSA no es pujante y productiva como usted la quiere hacer ver. Aquí no hay lanchas, aquí hay muchas máquinas paradas y ni hablar de la producción que ha decaído. Los empleados no gozamos de beneficios que anteriormente se cancelaban al día. Esto no tiene nada de socialista ni de gestión obrerista" indicó Fran Luna, trabajador de la empresa.

[Pretorian]

The fact is that millions of Venezuelans do not pay for electricity. I heard it depends on the area sometimes, and other reasons.

[pana_burda]

Actually you have that quite mistaken. The fact that there could be theft in the electric service doesn`t mean it is a policy of the state to give that service away free of all charge. As a matter of fact it is the opposite:

http://www.afinidadelectrica.com.ar/noticias.php?Id=1931

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')l ingeniero adelantó que una de las grandes metas de la corporación para el próximo año es generar una "cultura de pago" entre los venezolanos.
"Estamos desarrollando un plan más beligerante de cobro a los que reciben el servicio sin tener un contrato", dijo el comisionado de Distribución y Comercialización de Corpoelec.
Anunció que incorporarán para 2011 un millón de medidores que permitirá cobrar con más exactitud a los usuarios. Se requieren hasta la fecha un total de 2,5 millones de medidores.

[pana_burda]

This info might not belong in this thread but actully illustrates very well the kind of electric service this country has been receiving for way beyond the last five years.

http://www.panorama.com.ve/11-06-2011/avances/dos-fallas-sabado.html

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Para las 10:00 de la mañana en algunos sectores suman más de doce horas sin el fluido eléctrico.
A través de un comunicado, Corpelec informó que en la mañana de este sábado han ocurrido nuevas fallas en el sistema eléctrico regional afectando la prestación del servicio principalmente en Maracaibo.

[PrestonSturges]

mattduke, I've always wondered, what is that photo you use? It annoys me to be unable to identify the gun.

[eXpat]

Greek riots could provide a vision of the future
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'L')ast week, I attended a talk given by Paul Gilding, corporate consultant, ex-CEO of Greenpeace and occasional contributor to this website. He has been hoofing it around the globe (carbon offset, one would imagine) to promote his new book, The Great Disruption.

In an old church hall smelling faintly of wood-polish, he described to us what climate change will look like. He outlines some of his points here.

There were no tales of catastrophic tsunamis or drowning of Sydney Harbour's foreshore, rather a story of incremental awareness.

Oil prices will go through the roof, he said. Whether because of peak oil - the point at which it is not economic to extract - or because of a price on carbon, oil is only going to become more expensive. Our economy is run on oil so the knock-on effects are ubiquitous.

Food prices will soar, he said. Unable to feed their families there will be riots. Already, he said, this has been witnessed in the Middle East. Back in 2008, when food prices hit an all-time high, we saw riots, and again this year when food prices have matched those stratospheric records, we have seen uprisings around the globe. Thomas Friedman, writing in the New York Times has also made this comparison, most recently when reviewing Gilding's book.

And there will be stories in the news of natural disasters. A flood may hit, followed by a nasty cyclone. Maybe there'll be an unusually large hailstorm. Perhaps just a long, dusty drought.

None of these events could definitively be ascribed to climate change, but in sum, a picture starts to emerge.

A slow dawning realisation will lead to the inevitable conclusion that things ain't the same as they used to be. "Then it will hit. Like a grenade in a glasshouse, shattering denial and delusion and leaving it like a pile of broken glass on the floor of the old economic model. Then we'll be ready for change," Gilding says.

[eXpat]

Food Riot Fears Strike Japan After Rice Trading Halted Due To Radiation Contamination
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')ears of food riots strike Japan after rice trading is halted due to a 40% price spike triggered by massive hoarding of the remaining radiation free rice supply.

It is time to start paying very close attention the events unfolding in Japan as the nation teeters on the verge of food riots which may serve as an example of what other nations in a similar situation would face.

As we approach the 5 month marker since the onset of the Fukushima nuclear disaster, Japan has repeatedly assured the public that the nation’s food supply was safe from radiation. Japan has given those reassurances despite warnings from experts that the nuclear fallout has already surpassed 20 Hiroshima bombs with no end in site and experts say ‘off-scale’ levels of lethal radiation at Fukushima infer millions dying.

Time and again those assurances have proven to be false. Radiation has been found in everything from soil and sewage to tea and beef. Even worse, a just released report revealed that Japan ran simulations back as far as 1984 which showed 18,000 deaths from acute radiation exposure and a 55 mile radius would be rendered permanently uninhabitable. All of these factors have entirely destroyed the public’s trust in their government.

In an attempt to regain the public’s trust, Japan just announced hours ago that they will no longer offer any assurances of the safety of the nation’s food supply.