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THE F.William Engdahl Thread (merged)

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: Confessions of an “ex” Peak Oil Believer - Engdahl

Postby threadbear » Sun 11 Nov 2007, 01:20:38

Ingenuity Gap, I confused some of Big Tex's comments with your own. Excuse me. As for your summation of my literary skills, thank you. As a consolation for your dreary performance, may I suggest, Thomas Kuhn's, The Structure of Scientific Revolutions?
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Re: Confessions of an “ex” Peak Oil Believer - Engdahl

Postby Ingenuity_Gap » Sun 11 Nov 2007, 11:56:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'I')ngenuity Gap, I confused some of Big Tex's comments with your own. Excuse me. As for your summation of my literary skills, thank you. As a consolation for your dreary performance, may I suggest, Thomas Kuhn's, The Structure of Scientific Revolutions?


Threadbear, you didn't confuse any comments, so you don't have to mockingly apologize.

As for my summation of your literary skills, it wasn't supposed to be a compliment. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

Thank you so much for your consolation, but I don't know if you noticed: I didn't bother to debate your affirmation about "science being based on superstition" to win a thrill contest. I did it because I find it repugnantly untrue. The answer that followed from you reinforced my suspicion that you may very well be a master in sophistry and overstatement but you have no ideea what you are talking about.

In the end you didn't answer my question (hint: the answer is a thoroughly no), just like your initial arbitrary affirmation is completely false. No amount of specious reasoning on your part will ever change that.
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Re: Confessions of an “ex” Peak Oil Believer - Engdahl

Postby threadbear » Sun 11 Nov 2007, 17:06:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ingenuity_Gap', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'I')ngenuity Gap, I confused some of Big Tex's comments with your own. Excuse me. As for your summation of my literary skills, thank you. As a consolation for your dreary performance, may I suggest, Thomas Kuhn's, The Structure of Scientific Revolutions?


Threadbear, you didn't confuse any comments, so you don't have to mockingly apologize.

As for my summation of your literary skills, it wasn't supposed to be a compliment. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

Thank you so much for your consolation, but I don't know if you noticed: I didn't bother to debate your affirmation about "science being based on superstition" to win a thrill contest. I did it because I find it repugnantly untrue. The answer that followed from you reinforced my suspicion that you may very well be a master in sophistry and overstatement but you have no ideea what you are talking about.

In the end you didn't answer my question (hint: the answer is a thoroughly no), just like your initial arbitrary affirmation is completely false. No amount of specious reasoning on your part will ever change that.


The questions you asked me are rhetorical, but I think I answered them anyway. And I didn't say science was utterly useless, just that it has it's limits as a tool and that much of it is based on underlying assumptions that will prove false, in the future.

Where have I been overly cryptic here, and why have you taken such an insulting tone with me? If my observations bother you so much, just put me on ignore, or go have a good cry.

And...if my comments are delivered to thrill, or if it somehow "thrills" me to make them, as you charge, my sex life is completely unnecessary and a waste of energy. Thanks for the therapeutic approach.
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Re: Confessions of an “ex” Peak Oil Believer - Engdahl

Postby Ingenuity_Gap » Sun 11 Nov 2007, 21:29:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'T')he questions you asked me are rhetorical, but I think I answered them anyway.

I don't consider my question rhetorical. I honestly wanted to know your answer. Yes, you answered in your own way by using sophisms and exaggerations. A simple yes or no would have been more than enough. "Would you agree that religion is based on experimentation and logic?" is a yes/no question. Splitting hairs is not an option in this case.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'A')nd I didn't say science was utterly useless, just that it has it's limits as a tool and that much of it is based on underlying assumptions that will prove false, in the future.

Yes, you didn't say that science was utterly useless, at least not directly. But you implied that by saying: "Much of science rests on a bedrock of belief or superstition". To me (and probably to most English speaking people) your affirmation translates into: "The foundation of science is very shaky, and for that reason science is mostly useless. Don’t bother with it. Try something else instead."

If you intended to say science has its limits, you definitely chose very colorful words to convey your message. The image of the scientist shaking her "religious talismans" at the "sinners" is a far cry from that.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'W')here have I been overly cryptic here, and why have you taken such an insulting tone with me? If my observations bother you so much, just put me on ignore, or go have a good cry.

Being cryptic is not the issue here, and you know that. Your exaggerations and overstatements are.

I apologize if I offended you. Nobody is on my ignore list and crying for me requires a lot more than the exchange of ideas.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'A')nd...if my comments are delivered to thrill, or if it somehow "thrills" me to make them, as you charge, my sex life is completely unnecessary and a waste of energy. Thanks for the therapeutic approach.

No comment.
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Re: Confessions of an “ex” Peak Oil Believer - Engdahl

Postby threadbear » Sun 11 Nov 2007, 21:42:42

Ingenuity Gap, It was with great sadness and a mounting sense of mortification that I read your response. I did you and other posters a grave disservice by engaging in purple prose to portray the paucity of proper perspective that science promotes. Please, have pity.
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Re: Confessions of an “ex” Peak Oil Believer - Engdahl

Postby Ingenuity_Gap » Mon 12 Nov 2007, 08:59:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'I')ngenuity Gap, It was with great sadness and a mounting sense of mortification that I read your response. I did you and other posters a grave disservice by engaging in purple prose to portray the paucity of proper perspective that science promotes. Please, have pity.


A simple "I acknowledge I was exaggerating" would have been more than adequate, but humbleness is not your style, is it?

End of transmission.
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Re: Confessions of an “ex” Peak Oil Believer - Engdahl

Postby threadbear » Tue 13 Nov 2007, 20:14:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ingenuity_Gap', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'I')ngenuity Gap, It was with great sadness and a mounting sense of mortification that I read your response. I did you and other posters a grave disservice by engaging in purple prose to portray the paucity of proper perspective that science promotes. Please, have pity.


A simple "I acknowledge I was exaggerating" would have been more than adequate, but humbleness is not your style, is it?

End of transmission.


It's not "humbleness", it's humility, btw. And humility is not only my style, but a way of life. I do, however, have the intellectual confidence to take on naive clods, who think they're brilliant.
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Re: Confessions of an “ex” Peak Oil Believer - Engdahl

Postby KingM » Fri 23 Nov 2007, 17:38:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '
')It's not "humbleness", it's humility, btw. And humility is not only my style, but a way of life. I do, however, have the intellectual confidence to take on naive clods, who think they're brilliant.


Your boat is taking on water. Better row for shore while it's still in sight.
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Re: Confessions of an “ex” Peak Oil Believer - Engdahl

Postby threadbear » Fri 23 Nov 2007, 17:54:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KingM', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '
')It's not "humbleness", it's humility, btw. And humility is not only my style, but a way of life. I do, however, have the intellectual confidence to take on naive clods, who think they're brilliant.


Your boat is taking on water. Better row for shore while it's still in sight.


The next thing you're going to suggest is that I disassemble my shrine to myself, and return the monument inscribed, world's humblest narcissist. Thanks, Pal! :lol:
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F William Engdahl rebuttal

Postby Crimius » Thu 04 Sep 2008, 10:08:50

Has Engdahl's article been refuted?

Engdahl's article

Thanks
Last edited by Ferretlover on Thu 19 Feb 2009, 11:21:16, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Merged with THE F. William Engdahl Thread.
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Re: F William Engdahl rebuttal

Postby NeoPeasant » Thu 04 Sep 2008, 10:21:54

Wheres that guy with the "not this shit again?" picture?

Just wonderin--
Why didn't the earth pop like a giant oily zit sometime in the billions of years before humans came along to relieve the pressure from all this spontaneous abiogenic oil production?
The battle to preserve our lifestyle has already been lost. The battle to preserve our lives is just beginning.
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Re: F William Engdahl rebuttal

Postby dinopello » Thu 04 Sep 2008, 10:59:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NeoPeasant', 'W')heres that guy with the "not this crap again?" picture?

Just wonderin--
Why didn't the earth pop like a giant oily zit sometime in the billions of years before humans came along to relieve the pressure from all this spontaneous abiogenic oil production?


The oil way down there is on fire, that's why we have Volcanos. We need to get Red Adair to put that blaze out, then it will be oil squirting out of the volcanos.
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Re: F William Engdahl rebuttal

Postby Windmills » Thu 04 Sep 2008, 19:35:56

I don't think one should bother trying to refute an essay that can't even correctly characterize or define his opponents' arguments. His statements indicate that he doesn't clearly understand peak oil, so his entire argument becomes a straw man.
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Re: F William Engdahl rebuttal

Postby killJOY » Thu 04 Sep 2008, 21:44:14

mos actually gets the credit for showing me the pic.

Here it is. It's appropriate.

Image
Peak oil = comet Kohoutek.
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Re: F William Engdahl rebuttal

Postby TreeFarmer » Sat 06 Sep 2008, 17:36:32

Well, let me regurgitate some calculations I once saw.

First my assumptions (of course you can make your own).

The earth is 4.5 billiion years old.
There is a total of 4.5 trillions barrels of oil (what has already been produced and what is left in the ground).

Now, 4.5 trillion divided by 4.5 billion means that the earth abiotically produced 1,000 barrels of oil per year.

Even if that crap is true it is useless. When you are using 82,000,000 barrels per day, a resupply of 1,000 per day is not even a drop.

TF
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Engdahl: "US Looking At 10-Year Period Of "Pure Hell"

Postby Carlhole » Wed 11 Feb 2009, 11:50:05

Engdahl: Two years recession, or ten years of hell?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('F William Engdahl', 'I')n this first segment of the interview, Paul Jay discusses how the global economic crisis will impact Europe with author and political economist William Engdahl. Engdahl says Italy is experiencing the worst economic crisis it has seen in 30 years, and the British economy is “falling off a cliff.” He says the European situation is “differentiated,” that “it’s a little bit different from what’s going on in North America, especially in the United States.” In Europe, he explains, “it is more an indirect knock-on effect of the United States financial meltdown.” He says the question now is whether the European Union is going to try and decouple its dependency on the US dollar and begin to form regional currency blocks like many nations around the world are starting to do.

Bio

F William Engdahl is an economist and author and the writer of the best selling book "A Century of War: Anglo-American Oil Politics and the New World Order." Mr Engdhahl has written on issues of energy, politics and economics for more than 30 years, beginning with the first oil shock in the early 1970s. Mr. Engdahl contributes regularly to a number of publications including Asia Times Online, Asia, Inc, Japan's Nihon Keizai Shimbun, Foresight magazine; Freitag and ZeitFragen newspapers in Germany and Switzerland respectively. He is based in Germany.


Engdahl says the US economy is in for a 10-year period of "economic pure hell" in this video interview. Oh hell.

He says he's finishing up a book on the subject called "The Power Of Money: The Rise and Decline Of The American Century".

Engdahl, if you recall, had been an advocate of the Peak Oil Theory, but then suddenly changed his mind. He published an article called "Confessions Of An Ex-Peak Oil Believer" a couple of years ago, disappointing some people and trashing his own credibility with his willingness to admit the Abiotic Oil Theory as a real possibility. However, his article on the 2008 run-up in oil prices entitled, "Probably 60% Of The Price Of Oil IS Pure Speculation", pretty much coincided with the top of the market. People roundly ridiculed him for thinking that the price of oil could dive down as low as $60 again.

Let's all hope he's wrong as hell this time about the American economy.

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Re: Engdahl: "US Looking At 10-Year Period Of "Pure Hell"

Postby Serial_Worrier » Wed 11 Feb 2009, 13:45:21

If any country deserves to enter the gates of hell it's America. All it's war profiteering, genocide against the Palestinians, etc...
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Re: Engdahl: "US Looking At 10-Year Period Of "Pure Hell"

Postby TWilliam » Wed 11 Feb 2009, 14:26:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Serial_Worrier', 'g')enocide against the Palestinians...

...who are such wonderfully universal altruists themselves... :roll:

(Not that I'm excusing U.S. actions mind you... )
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Re: Engdahl: "US Looking At 10-Year Period Of "Pure Hell"

Postby EnergyUnlimited » Wed 11 Feb 2009, 14:57:23

I is interesting that one of our archcornucopians, means Carlhole who believes that creative ingenuity will solve everything, that singularity is near etc, now is talking about 10 years of economic hell.
Doesn't sound very coherent for me...
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Re: Engdahl: "US Looking At 10-Year Period Of "Pure Hell"

Postby Specop_007 » Wed 11 Feb 2009, 15:08:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Serial_Worrier', 'I')f any country deserves to enter the gates of hell it's America. All it's war profiteering, genocide against the Palestinians, etc...


Oh jeez.

Yeah and the moon landings were faked and Bush is a giant lizard.

I swear to Christ the more technologically advanced we get, the dumber we become. I mean really. Genocide? Genocide? Could you even tell us the definition of that word without looking it up or do you just throw it out there as some type of shock and awe type word. One of those catchy eye grabbers.

And what exactly is "etc etc"? Is that where you run out of catchy propaganda to spew out on the monitor so just let it trail off and hope other like minded fools will nod knowingly and agree "oh yes, oh yes. Its terrible" and then you can all pat each other on the back?
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