Peak Oil
Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

THE Bank Holiday Thread (merged)

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL
Post a reply

Re: Fox/CNBC Reporting A Bank Holiday Needed Next Week

Unread postby WyoDutch » Sat 11 Oct 2008, 11:48:19

My estimated tax payment to the IRS should have been mailed yesterday... I think I'll just hold onto that money for another week, just in case the federal government is as loony as I believe it is.

One silver lining to the economic cloud is that I don't have to listen to wierd old man McCain screaming "Victory! Victory! Victory!".
User avatar
WyoDutch
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 203
Joined: Sat 24 May 2008, 03:00:00
Location: Park County, Wyoming
Top

Re: Fox/CNBC Reporting A Bank Holiday Needed Next Week

Unread postby Denny » Sat 11 Oct 2008, 13:18:54

Two points:

1 - These days, a bank goliday would not be very consequential to the public, as we have ATM's, credit cards and debit cards.

2 - BigTex, your rant about Christopher Columbus is extremist. It is not just a U.S. tradition to honor this great man, he is similarly celebrated in Latin America and Spain. As a part of its work in education, the Knights of Columbus was instrumental in getting the American public sector holiday of Columbus Day established, by an act of Congress many years ago, and no doubt this man's virtues and faults were debated and he was found worthy of public honor. Check this out, as an alternative voice on the subject of Columbus. A man who sufffered faults, such as an over attraction to gold, and an involvement in a common law sexual relationship, but he was one who was one of the bravest souls in history and gave so much to the propagation of the Christian faith:

Front Page: Columbus

"It is fitting that we have set aside a day to honor the Great Explorer. On one level, Columbus Day honors the man himself for his many virtues. Columbus was a man of independent mind, who steadfastly pursued his bold plan for a westward voyage to the Indies despite powerful opposition--a man of courage, who set sail upon a trackless ocean with no assurance that he would ever reach land--a man of pride, who sought recognition and reward for his achievements.

We need not evade or excuse Columbus’s flaws--his religious zealotry, his enslavement and oppression of natives--to recognize that he made history by finding new territory for a civilization that would soon show mankind how to overcome the age-old scourges of slavery, war, and forced religious conversion.

Thus, the deeper meaning of Columbus Day is to celebrate the rational core of Western civilization, which flourished in the New World like a pot-bound plant liberated from its confining shell, demonstrating to the world what greatness is possible to man at his best.
User avatar
Denny
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1738
Joined: Sat 10 Jul 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Canada
Top

Re: Fox/CNBC Reporting A Bank Holiday Needed Next Week

Unread postby 3aidlillahi » Sat 11 Oct 2008, 13:30:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'g')ave so much to the propagation of the Christian faith:


Is that what explains his slavery-tendencies or extermination of non-Christians and why he's so hated by so many people?

God + Glory + Gold = Extermination of millions.

If he (and the Christians behind his expedition) were actually propagating the Christian faith, don't you think he would have been less greedy and less willing to indirectly murder millions while enslaving millions of others?
Riches are not from abundance of worldly goods, but from a contented mind.
User avatar
3aidlillahi
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1416
Joined: Tue 25 Mar 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Fox/CNBC Reporting A Bank Holiday Needed Next Week

Unread postby Denny » Sat 11 Oct 2008, 15:12:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('3aidlillahi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'g')ave so much to the propagation of the Christian faith:


Is that what explains his slavery-tendencies or extermination of non-Christians and why he's so hated by so many people?

God + Glory + Gold = Extermination of millions.

If he (and the Christians behind his expedition) were actually propagating the Christian faith, don't you think he would have been less greedy and less willing to indirectly murder millions while enslaving millions of others?


In so many ways, Columbus did not exhibit the virtues of Christianity. But, which of the European explorers to the Americas did fully? Some of the aspects of Christianity of old as practiced were, ironically, basically not that Christian! All the same, there is serious evidence that Columbus sought divine guidance, prayed and practiced the sacraments.

I think maybe the French were the most gentle of the European colonizers, but they too were open to slavery and some elements of greed. Even the Russians, not often thought of as a North American power, brought disease and fought a war against the Alaskan natives.

But, we are looking at this from today's perspective. Who is to say, in generations to come, that our descendants will not look at a lot of our socially accepted norms as non-Christian? Our generation could be easily enough judged as greedy, as exploiters of the third world, as gluttonous and hedonistic. I think it was Ghandi who commented that he liked the Christ as depicted in Christianity but was not impressed by Christians as people. We Christians are still a work in progress.
User avatar
Denny
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1738
Joined: Sat 10 Jul 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Canada
Top

Re: Jim Willie: Rumor of Fed Preps for 1-Week Bank Holiday

Unread postby Cloud9 » Sat 11 Oct 2008, 15:22:11

Columbus was clueless, lost and did not realize what he had found. Having said that, his genocide of the Caribs was to a large extent done by microbes and was unintentional. His quest for God, gold, glory and girls was about par for the time.
User avatar
Cloud9
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2961
Joined: Wed 26 Jul 2006, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Fox/CNBC Reporting A Bank Holiday Needed Next Week

Unread postby hironegro » Sat 11 Oct 2008, 15:46:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', 'T')he irony of Columbus Day is that Columbus was one of the most evil and cold-blooded conquerers of the New World. Ever wonder why people from Haiti are black? It's because Columbus and his minions basically exterminated every single native of Haiti because they made poor slaves, and then he imported a bunch of African slaves to replace the natives.
So we are celebrating Columbus and his exploits and this celebration is going to conveniently provide cover to a bunch of modern day Columbuses, who are viewed as capitalist heroes, but are actually just financial parasites.

oh the irony. It's not going to happen. Things will probably work themselves out.
hironegro
Coal
Coal
 
Posts: 419
Joined: Tue 08 Apr 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Fox/CNBC Reporting A Bank Holiday Needed Next Week

Unread postby BigTex » Sat 11 Oct 2008, 16:52:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', 'B')igTex, your rant about Christopher Columbus is extremist. It is not just a U.S. tradition to honor this great man, he is similarly celebrated in Latin America and Spain. As a part of its work in education, the Knights of Columbus was instrumental in getting the American public sector holiday of Columbus Day established, by an act of Congress many years ago, and no doubt this man's virtues and faults were debated and he was found worthy of public honor. Check this out, as an alternative voice on the subject of Columbus. A man who sufffered faults, such as an over attraction to gold, and an involvement in a common law sexual relationship, but he was one who was one of the bravest souls in history and gave so much to the propagation of the Christian faith.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Here's a little different take on it:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')HRISTOPHER COLUMBUS AND THE INDIANS
by Howard Zinn

[Howard Zinn is an author and lecturer. His most noted work, from which this selection is excerpted, is A People's History of the United States.]

Arawak men and women, naked, tawny, and full of wonder, emerged from their villages onto the island's beaches and swam out to get a closer look at the strange big boat. When Columbus and his sailors came ashore, carrying swords, speaking oddly, the Arawaks ran to greet them, brought them food, water, gifts. He later wrote of this in his log:

"They... brought us parrots and balls of cotton and spears and many other things, which they exchanged for the glass beads and hawks' bells. They willingly traded everything they owned.... They were well-built, with good bodies and handsome features.... They do not bear arms, and do not know them, for I showed them a sword, they took it by the edge and cut themselves out of ignorance. They have no iron. Their spears are made of cane.... They would make fine servants.... With fifty men we could subjugate them all and make them do whatever we want."

Columbus wrote:

"As soon as I arrived in the Indies, on the first Island which I found, I took some of the natives by force in order that they might learn and might give me information of whatever there is in these parts."

The information that Columbus wanted most was: Where is the gold?

The Indians, Columbus reported, "are so naive and so free with their possessions that no one who has not witnessed them would believe it. When you ask for something they have, they never say no. To the contrary, they offer to share with anyone...." He concluded his report by asking for a little help from their Majesties, and in return he would bring them from his next voyage "as much gold as they need . . . and as many slaves as they ask." He was full of religious talk: "Thus the eternal God, our Lord, gives victory to those who follow His way over apparent impossibilities."

Because of Columbus's exaggerated report and promises, his second expedition was given seventeen ships and more than twelve hundred men. The aim was clear: slaves and gold. They went from island to island in the Caribbean, taking Indians as captives. But as word spread of the Europeans' intent they found more and more empty villages. On Haiti, they found that the sailors left behind at Fort Navidad had been killed in a battle with the Indians, after they had roamed the island in gangs looking for gold, taking women and children as slaves for sex and labor.

Now, from his base on Haiti, Columbus sent expedition after expedition into the interior. They found no gold fields, but had to fill up the ships returning to Spain with some kind of dividend. In the year 1495, they went on a great slave raid, rounded up fifteen hundred Arawak men, women, and children, put them in pens guarded by Spaniards and dogs, then picked the five hundred best specimens to load onto ships. Of those five hundred, two hundred died en route. The rest arrived alive in Spain and were put up for sale by the archdeacon of the town, who reported that, although the slaves were "naked as the day they were born," they showed "no more embarrassment than animals." Columbus later wrote: "Let us in the name of the Holy Trinity go on sending all the slaves that can be sold."

But too many of the slaves died in captivity. And so Columbus, desperate to pay back dividends to those who had invested, had to make good his promise to fill the ships with gold. In the province of Cicao on Haiti, where he and his men imagined huge gold fields to exist, they ordered all persons fourteen years or older to collect a certain quantity of gold every three months. When they brought it, they were given copper tokens to hang around their necks. Indians found without a copper token had their hands cut off and bled to death.

The Indians had been given an impossible task. The only gold around was bits of dust garnered from the streams. So they fled, were hunted down with dogs, and were killed.

Trying to put together an army of resistance, the Arawaks faced Spaniards who had armor, muskets, swords, horses. When the Spaniards took prisoners they hanged them or burned them to death. Among the Arawaks, mass suicides began, with cassava poison. Infants were killed to save them from the Spaniards. In two years, through murder, mutilation, or suicide, half of the 250,000 Indians on Haiti were dead.

When it became clear that there was no gold left, the Indians were taken as slave labor on huge estates, known later as encomiendas. They were worked at a ferocious pace, and died by the thousands. By the year 1515, there were perhaps fifty thousand Indians left. By 1550, there were five hundred. A report of the year 1650 shows none of the original Arawaks or their descendants left on the island.

The chief source-and, on many matters the only source of information about what happened on the islands after Columbus came is Bartolome de las Casas, who, as a young priest, participated in the conquest of Cuba. For a time he owned a plantation on which Indian slaves worked, but he gave that up and became a vehement critic of Spanish cruelty. In Book Two of his History of the Indies, Las Casas (who at first urged replacing Indians by black slaves, thinking they were stronger and would survive, but later relented when he saw the effects on blacks) tells about the treatment of the Indians by the Spaniards. It is a unique account and deserves to be quoted at length:

"Endless testimonies . . . prove the mild and pacific temperament of the natives.... But our work was to exasperate, ravage, kill, mangle and destroy; small wonder, then, if they tried to kill one of us now and then.... The admiral, it is true, was blind as those who came after him, and he was so anxious to please the King that he committed irreparable crimes against the Indians..."

Las Casas tells how the Spaniards "grew more conceited every day" and after a while refused to walk any distance. They "rode the backs of Indians if they were in a hurry" or were carried on hammocks by Indians running in relays. "In this case they also had Indians carry large leaves to shade them from the sun and others to fan them with goose wings."

Total control led to total cruelty. The Spaniards "thought nothing of knifing Indians by tens and twenties and of cutting slices off them to test the sharpness of their blades." Las Casas tells how "two of these so-called Christians met two Indian boys one day, each carrying a parrot; they took the parrots and for fun beheaded the boys."

The Indians' attempts to defend themselves failed. And when they ran off into the hills they were found and killed. So, Las Casas reports. "they suffered and died in the mines and other labors in desperate silence, knowing not a soul in the world to whom they could tun for help." He describes their work in the mines:

"... mountains are stripped from top to bottom and bottom to top a thousand times; they dig, split rocks, move stones, and carry dirt on their backs to wash it in the rivers, while those who wash gold stay in the water all the time with their backs bent so constantly it breaks them; and when water invades the mines, the most arduous task of all is to dry the mines by scooping up pansful of water and throwing it up outside....

After each six or eight months' work in the mines, which was the time required of each crew to dig enough gold for melting, up to a third of the men died. While the men were sent many miles away to the mines, the wives remained to work the soil, forced into the excruciating job of digging and making thousands of hills for cassava plants.

Thus husbands and wives were together only once every eight or ten months and when they met they were so exhausted and depressed on both sides . . . they ceased to procreate. As for the newly born, they died early because their mothers, overworked and famished, had no milk to nurse them, and for this reason, while I was in Cuba, 7000 children died in three months. Some mothers even drowned their babies from sheer desperation.... In this way, husbands died in the mines, wives died at work, and children died from lack of milk . . . and in a short time this land which was so great, so powerful and fertile ... was depopulated.... My eyes have seen these acts so foreign to human nature, and now I tremble as I write...."

When he arrived on Hispaniola in 1508, Las Casas says, "there were 60,000 people living on this island, including the Indians; so that from 1494 to 1508, over three million people had perished from war, slavery, and the mines. Who in future generations will believe this? I myself writing it as a knowledgeable eyewitness can hardly believe it...."

Thus began the history, five hundred years ago, of the European invasion of the Indian settlements in the Americas. That beginning, when you read Las Casas--even if his figures are exaggerations (were there 3 million Indians to begin with, as he says, or less than a million, as some historians have calculated, or 8 million as others now believe?) is conquest, slavery, death. When we read the history books given to children in the United States, it all starts with heroic adventure--there is no bloodshed-and Columbus Day is a celebration.


Link

Columbus is certainly not the only greedy and cruel tyrant in history, but I'm not sure why we celebrate him. It seems like we ought to try to distance ourselves from him.
:)
User avatar
BigTex
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3858
Joined: Thu 03 Aug 2006, 03:00:00
Location: Graceland
Top

Re: Jim Willie: Rumor of Fed Preps for 1-Week Bank Holiday

Unread postby hironegro » Sat 11 Oct 2008, 18:01:55

Bigtex did you cry when you learned about wounded knee in school?

by the way I'm not white.
hironegro
Coal
Coal
 
Posts: 419
Joined: Tue 08 Apr 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Jim Willie: Rumor of Fed Preps for 1-Week Bank Holiday

Unread postby Revi » Sat 11 Oct 2008, 22:57:23

Frey Bartoleme de las Casas went to Guatemala as well. He founded the area called The Verapazes. The land of the lasting peace. I used to live there.

I would say that the story of the spanish conquest is an apt metaphor for what is happening now. Soon the Wall Streeters will expect to have us carry them around on our backs. They have gotten our pensions now, and now they want our grocery money.

If they expect us to pay the 800 billion back, good luck.

You can't get blood from a turnip.
Last edited by Revi on Sat 11 Oct 2008, 23:06:44, edited 1 time in total.
Deep in the mud and slime of things, even there, something sings.
User avatar
Revi
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 7417
Joined: Mon 25 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Maine
Top

Re: Fox/CNBC Reporting A Bank Holiday Needed Next Week

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Sat 11 Oct 2008, 23:03:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WyoDutch', 'M')y estimated tax payment to the IRS should have been mailed yesterday... I think I'll just hold onto that money for another week, just in case the federal government is as loony as I believe it is.


Ummm....Estimated taxes were due 9-15, not 10-15.
"We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
User avatar
smallpoxgirl
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 7258
Joined: Mon 08 Nov 2004, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Fox/CNBC Reporting A Bank Holiday Needed Next Week

Unread postby dunewalker » Sat 11 Oct 2008, 23:36:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '
')Ummm....Estimated taxes were due 9-15, not 10-15.


Maybe he's on Daylight Savings Time tax schedule...
"Wilderness is another civilization apart from our own." - H.D. Thoreau
User avatar
dunewalker
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1253
Joined: Thu 30 Jun 2005, 03:00:00
Location: northern California
Top

Re: Fox/CNBC Reporting A Bank Holiday Needed Next Week

Unread postby ReverseEngineer » Sun 12 Oct 2008, 04:26:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WyoDutch', 'M')y estimated tax payment to the IRS should have been mailed yesterday... I think I'll just hold onto that money for another week, just in case the federal government is as loony as I believe it is.


Ummm....Estimated taxes were due 9-15, not 10-15.


So what would you estimate Goldman-Sachs estimates their Tax Liability to be for this year? Did they send in their money on 9-15?

Tax collection for this year should be hilarious. Think the IRS and the Keystone Cops. LOL. Will the Gooberment be able to hire enough Tax Collectors to collect the non-existent revenues?

Of course Henry doesn't really need Tax Revenues anyhow, he'll just have Ben crank up the Printing Press to produce more money :-). Since the Chinese won't buy the debt, they'll just pass the T-Bills out to the general public to use as currency :-)

My income tax of course gets taken straight out of my paycheck, like any wage slave. I get money back every year. Now I can expect in addition to that, I'll get a few stimulus payments as well. If I lose my job, I am confident I have 18 months worth of Unemployment benefits coming my way. No problem, I'm not worried at all here. Cruise right thru this "downturn" while the market experiences a "correction" and our wise leaders navigate us through a minor "recession".

Reverse Engineer
User avatar
ReverseEngineer
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3352
Joined: Wed 16 Jul 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Rumours of Banking Holiday aka FDR

Unread postby deMolay » Thu 25 Jun 2009, 22:30:05

Apparently US foreign Embassies have been told to hoard local currency. Many State Department employees have sense of something big in the next 180 days. Rumours of impending Bank Holiday. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/schult ... -of-future
"We Are All Travellers, From The Sweet Grass To The Packing House, From Birth To Death, We Wander Between The Two Eternities". An Old Cowboy.
User avatar
deMolay
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2671
Joined: Sun 04 Sep 2005, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Rumours of Banking Holiday aka FDR

Unread postby copious.abundance » Thu 25 Jun 2009, 23:35:43

Lemme guess . . . this is going to end up like the market shutdowns which Roubini predicted back in October were just days away but which never materialized.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Stuff for doomers to contemplate:
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1190117.html#p1190117
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1206767.html#p1206767
User avatar
copious.abundance
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 9589
Joined: Wed 26 Mar 2008, 03:00:00
Location: Cornucopia
Top

Re: Rumours of Banking Holiday aka FDR

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 26 Jun 2009, 02:38:02

I don't get it. Why would there be a bank holiday? There's no run on the banks at the moment .. ?

Anyway, I really don't see this happening. A bank holiday would scare the socks off the consumers, so it doesn't make any sense at all to go down that road.
User avatar
Sixstrings
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 15160
Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Rumours of Banking Holiday aka FDR

Unread postby TreeFarmer » Fri 26 Jun 2009, 09:48:14

The only current and obvious fact what would lead to a Banking Holiday would be if the powers that be realized that there is so much debt in the system that it can never be paid. If that were to happen then this http://mikecane2008.wordpress.com/2008/ ... 0-427-777/ is one of two ways to deal with it, the other being to print a butt-load of money overnight and just payoff the debt all at once.

I am beginning to strongly suspect that the statement "compound interest will eventually destroy any monetary system" is correct.


TF
User avatar
TreeFarmer
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 609
Joined: Tue 26 Jun 2007, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Rumours of Banking Holiday aka FDR

Unread postby gollum » Fri 26 Jun 2009, 09:55:28

Where are the 2 posts reverse engenier had on this thread last night????
gollum
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1048
Joined: Thu 11 Nov 2004, 04:00:00
Location: Wyoming
Top

Re: Rumours of Banking Holiday aka FDR

Unread postby deMolay » Fri 26 Jun 2009, 10:03:37

If the rumours are true, I think it means that a big devaluation is coming. "New Lamps For Old, New Lamps For Old."
"We Are All Travellers, From The Sweet Grass To The Packing House, From Birth To Death, We Wander Between The Two Eternities". An Old Cowboy.
User avatar
deMolay
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2671
Joined: Sun 04 Sep 2005, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Rumours of Banking Holiday aka FDR

Unread postby gollum » Fri 26 Jun 2009, 10:08:22

I tend to think that embassy's stocking cash is a preparation for devaluation.
gollum
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1048
Joined: Thu 11 Nov 2004, 04:00:00
Location: Wyoming
Top

Re: Rumours of Banking Holiday aka FDR

Unread postby shortonoil » Fri 26 Jun 2009, 15:22:34

Sixstrings said:$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') don't get it. Why would there be a bank holiday? There's no run on the banks at the moment .. ? Anyway, I really don't see this happening. A bank holiday would scare the socks off the consumers, so it doesn't make any sense at all to go down that road.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hursday, June 25, 2009
$27 Billion 7 Year Note Auction Results Posted by Tyler Durden at 1:06 PM
- Yield 3.329% vs. Exp. 3.360%
- B/c ratio 2.82 vs. Avg. 2.35 (Prev. 2.26)
- Indirects 67.2% vs. Avg. 31.39% (Prev. 33.07%)
- Allotted at high 13.17%
ZeroHedge

I would suspect that one of the majors, JPM, GS, Citi, Wells Fargo or BAC is heading into the crapper. Their IRSwap exposure is enormous, something on the order of 80% of $400 trillion. The FED recently changed the definition of Indirects so that it could apply to their Primaries. Indirects that until recently applied mostly to CBs is, as shown above, doing some bizarre stuff. I would guess that the Primaries are now holding up Treasuries as the rest of the buyers head out the door.

IRSwaps are very sensitive to volatility. The IRSwaps have been used to keep Treasury interest rates depressed much like CDS were used to keep mortgage bond rates down and easy to sell. If the FED loses control of long term rates, the Primaries losses will be in the $ trillions. That would be major bank crash time. AvailableEnergy
User avatar
shortonoil
False ETP Prophet
False ETP Prophet
 
Posts: 7132
Joined: Thu 02 Dec 2004, 04:00:00
Location: VA USA
Top
Previous
Post a reply

Return to Economics & Finance

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests



cron