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The Anti-Kunstler Thread

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: The Anti-Kunstler Thread

Unread postby mos6507 » Sun 16 Mar 2008, 17:38:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MacG', '
')What makes him a bona fide asshole is that he seems to look forward to the destruction and suffering ahead.


A lot of people here share that opinion. It's kind of a quasi-religious end-times mindset of calling for collective punishment of mankind.
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Re: The Anti-Kunstler Thread

Unread postby BigTex » Sun 16 Mar 2008, 20:15:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '.')..Good observations about the phenomenon of being "let down" by someone you've looked up to. I bet that happens to nearly all of us at some point.

Constantly. We can't expect perfection, yet somehow we do anyway.

Of course we can find things about Kunstler we don't like. It doesn't matter. He's right about virtually everything.


Except Y2K. Right?
:)
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Re: The Anti-Kunstler Thread

Unread postby PhebaAndThePilgrim » Sun 16 Mar 2008, 22:40:54

Good evening from Pheba, from the farm:
After I related the accident concerning our neighbor to Kunstler, he replied about how weird it was for the neighbors to show up to finish the pond. His e-mail replies to me were always short and cryptic.
Most of the time his replies gave me the feeling that he really did not want to respond, and he could care less what I had to say.
I corresponded with Kunstler for several months to keep him informed on the farming/peak oil situation in mid Missouri.
I became irritated and disappointed with his responses early on, but kept doing it because I thought it may help him in his research.
When I related the story about our neighbor the event had just taken place. I was in shock. My husband had known the man all of his life. I had known him for 9 years.
He was such a kind and gentle men. He was a fantastic neighbor.
One time we had a cow go down. On this occasion this cow just lay down and could not get back up. The temperature dropped, and it began to sleet. We knew the cow would die if we did not get her under shelter. Our tractor was not big enough to hoist the cow.
We had several neighbors show up with larger tractors, including our next door neighbor. That's what true neighbors do.
When I related the information about the death of my neighbor to Kunstler, his flippant, sarcastic reaction really hurt. I stopped writing to him.
I don't hate Kunstler. I most certainly have no use for him.
He speaks the truth, but since he speaks the truth with such venom, he loses most of the audience he needs to reach.
I also become frustrated with people who just don't "get it".
I usually vent my frustration on this web-site or with my husband. I do not attack the very people I am trying to communicate with. That's self defeating, and especially here in the Midwest, makes me look like a fringe lunatic.
Oh, I am going to be changing my name as soon as I figure out how to do it. My hubby has been wanting to post for some time. He has some amazing farming information. We purchased corn last Saturday, and he had a long talk with the farmer we buy our corn from. My husband does not want to post as Phebagirl, so I have to change my name.
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Re: The Anti-Kunstler Thread

Unread postby Heineken » Sun 16 Mar 2008, 22:49:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MacG', '
')What makes him a bona fide asshole is that he seems to look forward to the destruction and suffering ahead.


A lot of people here share that opinion. It's kind of a quasi-religious end-times mindset of calling for collective punishment of mankind.
Quasi-religious? What pray tell is that?

Does Kunstler kneel on one knee? Abort every other fetus? Pray to the father and a half a son (no holy ghost)? Will the Lord send him to a very hot place (like Phoenix) for his sins? Does Kunstler eat pork or does he just pork it? Does he believe in not believing things?

So this 'quasi-religion end-times mindset' that calls for 'collective punishment of mankind' is it exclusive? Can anyone join? Womenkind?

Is Kunstler the guru or just an alter boy?


I don't know where people get the idea that Kunstler "looks forward" to the coming wave of destruction and death. I've read his blog and his book "The Long Emergency" and don't detect that particular bloodthirsty anticipation. Is he, at times, vitriolic with rage? Sure. But actually wanting people to suffer? Nonsense.

I do think he likes the idea of the landscape of nowhere and the automobile passing from this world and being replaced by real communities and Ma Nature. I like that idea myself. But that doesn't make us sadists.
"Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog

"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---I & my bro.
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Re: The Anti-Kunstler Thread

Unread postby BigTex » Sun 16 Mar 2008, 23:38:36

Kunstler is just a little sloppy some of the time. For example, when he talks about the south, he paints it in cartoonish terms that are obviously not accurate. My experience is that small town America is a lot alike wherever you go. The south has by no means cornered the redneck market.

If you get sloppy with part of your analysis and commentary, it can undermine the rest of what you have to say.

I appreciate what he is trying to do, some of it is just a little over the top for no apparent reason.

I thought it was interesting that the Kunstler fans on Amazon seemed to have the most harsh words for his new book.
:)
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Re: The Anti-Kunstler Thread

Unread postby fireplaceguy » Sun 16 Mar 2008, 23:56:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('heineken', 'I') don't know where people get the idea that Kunstler "looks forward" to the coming wave of destruction and death.
We read the book.

Kunstler's a sanctimonious ass and not half as clever as he fancies himself. There's no doubt he's wishing for the fall of American society - from his sermon on the subject I'm sure he was crushed when Y2K was a non-event. Now he's all moist in the hopes that peak oil will do the deed. His tone of certainty (moral and otherwise) hasn't changed since his Y2K tome.

LE was the first thing I read on peak oil. Kunstler's so prejudiced and offensive that he almost lost me in the first chapter. You could replace about a third of that book with this: "Dear reader: you're a putz. It sucks that you were born, and worse yet you've reproduced. I can't wait till you and yours starve to death or kill each other and leave purer air for me" (Heh - think of the trees that would have saved!)

It's sociopathic to wish for and welcome such suffering, and he clearly does. While I've subsequently done a great deal to inform others about peak oil, I've never used LE as a reference - I wouldn't be associated with such arrogance and bigotry (Yes, bigotry - read his comments about southerners, Christians, NASCAR fans, etc.). Come to think of it, it would be cool if he went to a Nextel Cup race and insulted the fans in person! I'd love to watch THAT video! (One can always dream...)

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pheba', 'I') don't hate Kunstler. I most certainly have no use for him. He speaks the truth, but since he speaks the truth with such venom, he loses most of the audience he needs to reach.
I don't hate him either, but I'm reminded that I despise his type. Agreed, he speaks some truth about peak oil and it's ramifications. Sadly, he hasn't a clue about real people and thus lies about us "useless eaters" throughout the book.

I'd never re-read LE. In fact, back around Christmas I needed room on that shelf and I threw it away.
Last edited by fireplaceguy on Mon 17 Mar 2008, 00:29:26, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Anti-Kunstler Thread

Unread postby Heineken » Mon 17 Mar 2008, 00:27:31

There's an ancient saying this makes me think of:

"Kill the messenger."
"Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog

"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---I & my bro.
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Re: The Anti-Kunstler Thread

Unread postby BigTex » Mon 17 Mar 2008, 00:57:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'T')here's an ancient saying this makes me think of:

"Kill the messenger."


Maybe it's like in the movie "300", where it's:

Kill the messenger if he's an asshole.

If you've seen it I'm thinking of the scene where they threw the arrogant Persian messenger into that giant hole.
:)
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Re: The Anti-Kunstler Thread

Unread postby BigTex » Mon 17 Mar 2008, 02:05:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'T')here's an ancient saying this makes me think of:

"Kill the messenger."


Maybe it's like in the movie "300", where it's:

Kill the messenger if he's an asshole.

If you've seen it I'm thinking of the scene where they threw the arrogant Persian messenger into that giant hole.
I like you BigTex and you have a nice pompadour. but really?


I like you too pstarr and you have a nice liberty jugular puncture technique.

I'm not saying I want to throw Kunstler in a hole, I'm just saying that messengers are more likely to be killed if they're jerks.

I also wanted to work in a "300" reference, because it's a cool movie.

Image

Image

Image
Last edited by BigTex on Mon 17 Mar 2008, 02:23:38, edited 1 time in total.
:)
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Re: The Anti-Kunstler Thread

Unread postby mos6507 » Mon 17 Mar 2008, 02:17:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'T')here's an ancient saying this makes me think of:

"Kill the messenger."


Maybe it's like in the movie "300", where it's:

Kill the messenger if he's an asshole.

If you've seen it I'm thinking of the scene where they threw the arrogant Persian messenger into that giant hole.


BTW, this is what happens when Pemex really bottoms out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7qKD-Ph7ds
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Re: The Anti-Kunstler Thread

Unread postby BigTex » Mon 17 Mar 2008, 10:05:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'T')here's an ancient saying this makes me think of:

"Kill the messenger."


Maybe it's like in the movie "300", where it's:

Kill the messenger if he's an asshole.

If you've seen it I'm thinking of the scene where they threw the arrogant Persian messenger into that giant hole.
I like you BigTex and you have a nice pompadour. but really?


I'm not saying I want to do it, I'm just saying that messengers are more likely to be killed if they're jerks.
So the truth can be jerky? It's kind of interesting that it may take a 'jerk' like Knustler to tell the truth.

10 'well adjusted,' 'caring,' 'warm,' 'socially adept,' 'family-oriented,' 'nice,' 'pleasant,' decent human beings can go an anally pleasure themselves if they continue to contribute to this planet-destroying fiasco we are engaged in and are not worth one page of Kunstler's erudite meanderings.

So Kunstler is a arrogant asshole? Well he's probably a JEW and that makes it okay :razz:

I'm also a big Hunter S. Thompson fan, and sometimes I think Kunstler is imitating HST's schtick.

But I appreciate Kunstler's message. I've read LE and I will read more of his work.

What Kunstler do you suggest I read next?
:)
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Re: The Anti-Kunstler Thread

Unread postby BigTex » Mon 17 Mar 2008, 12:18:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'M')y copy of his 1994 book "Geography of Nowhere" is nowhere. I keep going over to my bookcase to reference it and it has disappeared. Must have lent it out. :x

I guess I'll have to push that buy button on FetchBook.com :)

but that is the book


Thanks!
:)
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Re: The Anti-Kunstler Thread

Unread postby efarmer » Mon 17 Mar 2008, 18:18:16

I remember going to one of those reenactment villages with
my Dad and Grandpa when I was a kid. While the women looked
at things that caught their attention I accompanied the two
patriarchs to the blacksmith shop. We watched him hammer
out couple of horse shoes and then went off to find the
ladies and gang back up again. On the trail I got to listen
to the older guys talk:

Dad: Did you get a whiff of that blacksmith? Sumbitch stunk
like an angora goat pulling a gut wagon.

Grandad: Yeah but the bastard sure hammers out a good shoe.

It's kind of like that you know. We all stink and are ignorant and
shine and are fine and worthwhile. If you pick out the bad stuff
and throw the good stuff away you are liable to earn yourself
like treatment. The stink washes off the good stuff, honest.

This is my parable for the day. I will go fuck myself now just so
I can beat all of you to the punch with your response.
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Boycott Kunstler

Unread postby threadbear » Wed 21 Jan 2009, 22:27:14

I read him only sporadically now. His doomer rant's wearing thin. Still funny at times, but ultimately just getting old. The threadbare reactionary rants about peak oil (yeah, right. We're at 40 bucks, looking at possibly 30, near term?) are in keeping with his creepily bigoted reaction to the Gaza pummeling. Can you just picture this nasty a** in gym class as a child? He must have gotten one heck of a wedgie from a Lebanese immigrant or Jordanian schoolmate to account for what has to be described as a very cruel personality.

Clusterfuck nation: Log on and voice your opinion. Let him know if you're going to continue reading his bile. I'm sure he'll pick up on it when he ego surfs...and something tells me he does a lot of that.

Out of the Woodwork:

"Lately, another large cohort on the political Left adopted the Palestinians as their "pet oppressed minority group du jour." This branch of Jew-haters emanated out of the humanities departments of the universities, when the faculty got bored with the Nazi holocaust, or wished to stake out some new turf in the arena of multiculturalism for the sake of academic advancement."

http://jameshowardkunstler.typepad.com/ ... ck_nation/

Hey Kunstler you Schmuck--Who are the "Jew" haters? There are only good people really angry with nasty people like you.
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Re: Boycott Kunstler

Unread postby Leanan » Wed 21 Jan 2009, 23:04:12

Did you see this article?

In the unhealed Jewish heart, Arabs became Nazis

It's about Kunstler's reaction to the Gaza thing, and argues it's fear at the root of it:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')his background makes it hard for me to accept that he is a Zionist moonbat. His arrogant, unruffled pose masks a deep fear that the dislocation he has been predicting for years will have a pronounced antisemitic hue, but of course mindsets like his invite rather than repel such an outcome.


It ends:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')vraham Burg said, prophetically, in his book on Jewish identity, that the Holocaust is over and we must rise from its ashes. But that is prophecy. In the Jewish heart, it's not over. It's rewinding and replaying. When you slaughter hundreds of children because you feel threatened and aggrieved, you are just perpetuating a cycle of abuse. When you thumb your nose at the world's outrage over the atrocities because the world was silent during the Holocaust, you are not living in history, you're stuck in amber. Often I think that the smartest most Arendtian thing Burg says in his book is that Jews forgave the Germans too quickly (and did so in part for money that built Israel). They took all that feeling and put it on the Arabs. Kunstler does us all a service by making that connection publicly, exposing the terrified emotion behind irrational, and incredibly hurtful, conduct.
"The problems of today will not be solved by the same thinking that produced the problems in the first place." - Albert Einstein
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Re: Boycott Kunstler

Unread postby Fishman » Thu 22 Jan 2009, 00:24:06

I love it when liberals tear into liberals, it seems to be our best hope for the future. The Middle East alone offers enough to have them at each others throat. If Barach Disillusionment Syndrome spreads quick enough we might get to see them fighting in the streets by March.
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Re: Boycott Kunstler

Unread postby threadbear » Thu 22 Jan 2009, 00:26:00

Thanks Leanan. I'm glad there are others out there deeply offended with his garbage. There's a mean, snobbishly effete edge to this guy, I always forgave because he's hilarious, and I appreciate his views on suburbia and depleting resources. But this time he really has gone too far. I would actually discourage people from reading his site now. It's becoming a repository of toxic waste as ugly as the architectural monstrosities he highlights.
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Re: Boycott Kunstler

Unread postby threadbear » Thu 22 Jan 2009, 00:29:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fishman', 'I') love it when liberals tear into liberals, it seems to be our best hope for the future. The Middle East alone offers enough to have them at each others throat. If Barach Disillusionment Syndrome spreads quick enough we might get to see them fighting in the streets by March.


And how would you describe yourself? You do such a superior job of illuminating the subtleties in human interaction, perhaps you could advance a theory on what makes you tick.
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Re: Boycott Kunstler

Unread postby outcast » Thu 22 Jan 2009, 00:50:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') read him only sporadically now. His doomer rant's wearing thin. Still funny at times, but ultimately just getting old. The threadbare reactionary rants about peak oil (yeah, right. We're at 40 bucks, looking at possibly 30, near term?) are in keeping with his creepily bigoted reaction to the Gaza pummeling.



Kunstler is a doom monger, nothing else. He started in '99 with Y2K, but when that didn't pan out he moved onto PO. Check the link in my sig to see where it all began.
Y2K is real. Y2K is going to rock our world.
-Kunstler

Don't respond, I'll just ignore it.
-MonteQuest
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Re: Boycott Kunstler

Unread postby Carlhole » Thu 22 Jan 2009, 01:14:55

He's at his best when he takes on the sheer gaudiness, useless extravagance and aesthetic wasteland of American life and values. He has really been funny at times - something like a New Urbanist, permaculture version of Hunter S. Thompson. But lately he just seems to be another cursing grouch.
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