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THE Addicted to Oil Thread (merged)

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: FT: US begins to break foreign oil ‘addiction’

Unread postby wisconsin_cur » Tue 20 May 2008, 00:49:00

Perhaps someone can help me. It says that we are breaking our addiction to foreign oil based on the observation that less imported oil is coming to the USA because the price is going up so much.

Isn't this a chicken vs the egg argument? Did prices go up so we stopped importing as much or was less available to us so we bid the price up?
http://www.thenewfederalistpapers.com
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Re: FT: US begins to break foreign oil ‘addiction’

Unread postby dunewalker » Tue 20 May 2008, 01:11:28

For some reason the above article wouldn't open for me, but according to last week's EIA Weekly Petroleum Report, U.S. consumption was:

"Total products supplied over the last four-week period has averaged 20.5
million barrels per day, down by 0.3 percent compared to the similar period last
year."

I would hardly describe this as "breaking our foreign oil addiction".
"Wilderness is another civilization apart from our own." - H.D. Thoreau
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Re: FT: US begins to break foreign oil ‘addiction’

Unread postby Micki » Tue 20 May 2008, 01:34:45

For get it. I was waffling so decided not to put in my comment. [smilie=5ziplip.gif]
Later perhaps.
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Re: FT: US begins to break foreign oil ‘addiction’

Unread postby yesplease » Tue 20 May 2008, 01:40:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dunewalker', 'F')or some reason the above article wouldn't open for me
Removing the extra "http//" from the link might help.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Professor Membrane', ' ')Not now son, I'm making ... TOAST!
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Re: FT: US begins to break foreign oil ‘addiction’

Unread postby Armageddon » Tue 20 May 2008, 02:25:13

There is a difference between voluntary and unvoluntary regarding cutting imports.
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Re: FT: US begins to break foreign oil ‘addiction’

Unread postby Cashmere » Tue 20 May 2008, 02:28:34

In unrelated news, several million Somalis and Ethiopians are breaking their addiction to food.
Massive Human Dieoff <b>must</b> occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where <b>you</b> live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
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Re: FT: US begins to break foreign oil ‘addiction’

Unread postby yesplease » Tue 20 May 2008, 02:39:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'I')n unrelated news, several million Somalis and Ethiopians are breaking their addiction to food.
Same shit, different dance. Africa's had trouble with food for quite some time.
Last edited by yesplease on Tue 20 May 2008, 03:12:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FT: US begins to break foreign oil ‘addiction’

Unread postby auscanman » Tue 20 May 2008, 02:44:06

Even the most 'respected' media are showing that they'll do anything to offer the masses a glimmer of hope... and thereby keep the advertisement dollars pouring in. I mean who wants to read a bunch of doom and gloom in the news, anyway! :?
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Re: FT: US begins to break foreign oil ‘addiction’

Unread postby dorlomin » Tue 20 May 2008, 07:26:39

Is the word ordering not somewhat wrong? Should it not read "FT: Foreign oil addiction begins to break US?"
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Re: FT: US begins to break foreign oil ‘addiction’

Unread postby wisconsin_cur » Tue 20 May 2008, 09:20:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dorlomin', 'I')s the word ordering not somewhat wrong? Should it not read "FT: Foreign oil addiction begins to break US?"


That was my original question for the economist and business people, how would we tell the difference? Could one tell the difference?
http://www.thenewfederalistpapers.com
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Re: FT: US begins to break foreign oil ‘addiction’

Unread postby centralstump » Tue 20 May 2008, 09:34:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dorlomin', 'I')s the word ordering not somewhat wrong? Should it not read "FT: Foreign oil addiction begins to break US?"


That was my original question for the economist and business people, how would we tell the difference? Could one tell the difference?


Only when taken in context. See below.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/13/news/ec ... /index.htm
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America's Energy Dependency Solution

Unread postby nvrpc » Sun 25 May 2008, 14:45:26

http://tenaciousness1984.googlepages.co ... Energy.pdf

A good leader could get the job done if he'd just bypass congress, senate and give the middle finger to the oil companies
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Re: America's Energy Dependency Solution

Unread postby Cashmere » Sun 25 May 2008, 15:00:13

Great suggestion for a first post.

If we just had a leader who would circumvent the Constitution, then we'd be all set?

Oil companies are the problem and we need to give them the finger?

1. Bush HAS done nothing but shit on the Constitution.

2. Most members of this site have no love lost for Big Oil, but no members of this site, that I'm aware of, think that Big Oil has any control whatsoever over how much oil is in the ground.
Massive Human Dieoff <b>must</b> occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where <b>you</b> live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
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Re: America's Energy Dependency Solution

Unread postby nvrpc » Sun 25 May 2008, 16:26:30

What I am saying is to tell saudi arabi to eat crap and do as is in the link. NOTHING else except this course of action will ever solve our oil depenedency problems. As long as they continue to drill and find more oil the less chance of us every doing as what is in the link. We need to get off oil no matter what. Maybe we should raise the price of gas to $10.00 a gallon and then maybe people will be asking that the preseident do exactly what is in the link, maybe that is truly the answer. Mankind has a tendency to do nothing useful until the are hungry and in the streets just as it was in the 20's and 30's, then they were more than willing to do things that were good for the nation.
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10 assinine assumptions of energy addicts and PO deniers

Unread postby JJ » Fri 13 Jun 2008, 19:52:27

from culture change: link

Edited to add brief quote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Ten unfortunate assumptions of energy addicts by Jan Lundbert, 26 May 2008:
Culture Change Letter #186, May 24, 2008
This is a message on record crude and gasoline prices to oil addicts (Hello!). I include their close cousins the green energy addicts (Ciao!). This is prompted by the shallow, momentary news-analyses of the oil market, as well as by the slightly less-shallow boosterism of a green-energy Utopia. Lend me your ears before I say, “Have a global warming day” and we go our separate ways. I'd like to think I’m moving to the country or the high seas.
I want to say “Hey” to the endangered American gas guzzler and all manner of major oil burner, and, "Hail ye plastic-consuming, tax-funding supporters of never-ending war! You’ve been driving up a storm, whether Operation Desert Storm or the next Katrina.” The few who aren’t driving are marginalized like Cassandras -- usually considered losers. Our hearts go out to one and all, for the (c)rude awakening has barely begun.
Some have pondered what it means for pump prices to get past $4 a gallon and for oil prices to get to $135 a barrel. Continuing to ponder away has, significantly, resulted in no action other than be forced to cut back on some expenditures. Your habits and thinking haven’t changed, but they will shortly. This is a heads-up on what goes on with the oil industry; it might help, for there is more than meets the eye that affects everyone. What’s in store for us all, energy-wise and for our very survival? …
Last edited by Ferretlover on Sun 07 Feb 2010, 15:40:23, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited to add brief quote from link.
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Re: 10 assinine assumptions of energy addicts and PO deniers

Unread postby Wren » Fri 13 Jun 2008, 22:30:16

Wow. thank you for posting that. It is so succinct, concise, accurate, and written in a way that people can understand. So, when I mail it out to people, weather they like it or not, they won't be able to argue with it very well. They may say something argumantative, but, I doubt they can do as good a job as this writter.
I found that to be very good for me to read right now, just personally. It's like, "yeah, i needed that."
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Re: 10 assinine assumptions of energy addicts and PO deniers

Unread postby biofuel13 » Fri 13 Jun 2008, 23:14:49

great article. thanks
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Scientists: drilling only extends our oil addiction

Unread postby Peepers » Thu 26 Jun 2008, 23:43:46

http://www.ucsusa.org/news/press_releas ... -0127.html

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
June 26, 2008
2:26 PM

CONTACT: Union of Concerned Scientists
Lisa Nurnberger, 202-331-6959
and Aaron Huertas, 202-331-5458


More Drilling Extends National Addiction to Oil; Will Not Save Americans Money at the Pump
Statement by Brendan Bell, UCS Washington Representative

WASHINGTON - June 26 - Senate Republican leadership today introduced a bill that would expand off-shore oil drilling and open areas that are now off-limits in Colorado, Utah and Wyoming to oil development. The bill, the Gas Price Reduction Act of 2008, stands in stark contrast with forward-looking legislation the House is considering, which would protect consumers from rising gas prices and expand transportation choices. Opening up America's coastlines and special places to oil and gas drilling is a shortsighted response that would not reduce prices at the pump and take the country in the wrong direction, according to the Union of Concerned Scientists (UCS).

Below is a statement by Brendan Bell, UCS Washington representative:

"Americans deserve real solutions that will save them money at the pump, not more political posturing from the oil industry and its allies in Congress. The 'Gas Price Reduction Act' sounds like something out of a George Orwell novel. Despite the name, it will have no effect on today's gas prices and will have virtually no effect on future markets. Making our cars, light trucks and SUVs go farther on a gallon of gas would deliver real savings, not false promises.

"Unfortunately, high gas prices are here to stay. The price of oil is set by the world market and is being driven, in large part, by growing world demand. The United States cannot drill its way out of its oil addiction. We consume 25 percent of the world's oil, but we have only 3 percent of the world's proven reserves.

"We can't lower oil prices, but we can save consumers money by cutting back how often they have to fill up. Better fuel economy means real savings right now and into the future. Consumers can save money today by sticking to the speed limit, avoiding stop-and-go traffic, and taking public transit when it is available. Congress can start now by requiring oil companies to provide free air at all gas stations and encouraging Americans to tune-up their cars and trucks. These two steps could cut gas consumption by 5 to 10 percent depending on how well the vehicle is maintained. That would be the equivalent of a 20 to 40 cent per gallon discount.

"It is also time to extend tax credits that help Americans purchase new fuel-efficient vehicles, such as hybrid cars and SUVs, and eliminate the caps on those tax credits. In addition, Congress should pass legislation that provides Americans with expanded transportation choices, so we don't have to drive as often. Finally, we can put existing technology to work by ensuring strong implementation of the recently passed fuel economy standards.

"Ask any American if they want to save a dollar per gallon of gas and they will say, 'Yes.' That is precisely what the fuel economy standards passed by Congress last year will do. UCS analysis shows that just by reaching the minimum standard of 35 miles per gallon fleetwide by 2020, Americans will save $45 billion a year (at $4 per gallon of gas) and cut oil consumption by 1.1 million barrels per day. That is the equivalent of cutting today's gas prices by more than one dollar per gallon.

"The good news is that we have the fuel-saving technology to do even more. Regardless, the White House is blocking an EPA report that concluded the auto industry can go beyond 35 miles per gallon and the Transportation Department is setting standards assuming gas will cost just $2.42 in 2016. The administration cannot claim to care about Americans paying high gas prices on the one hand and then block federal agencies from taking action with the other.

"We need to break our addition to oil -- an addiction that only benefits the pusher -- the oil companies. This latest move by some in Congress is just another sign of the overwhelming greed of the oil companies. Not only are they making record profits, they are getting more than $30 billion in tax breaks. Now they want the federal government to give them our treasured public lands and beaches, even though they aren't drilling on all the leases they currently own. How much more do the oil companies expect American taxpayers to bankroll their profits?

"Our oil addiction hurts our economy, our environment, and our national security. Instead of focusing on the backward policies featured in today's Senate bill, it is time to move forward with American ingenuity and technology to cut our dependence on oil, save money at the gas pump, and curb global warming."

The Union of Concerned Scientists is the leading science-based nonprofit organization working for a healthy environment and a safer world. Founded in 1969, UCS is headquartered in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and has offices in Berkeley, California, and Washington, D.C. For more information, go to www.ucsusa.org.
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Re: Scientists: drilling only extends our oil addiction

Unread postby Precipice » Fri 27 Jun 2008, 00:02:51

Do people really need scientists to tell them that more drilling will extend our oil addiction? How far gone are we???
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Re: Scientists: drilling only extends our oil addiction

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 27 Jun 2008, 01:45:34

That oil addiction is powerful strong, but its not quite as powerful as the air addiction and the food addiction and the sleep addicton.
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