[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '
')Long-haul trucking to short-haul to rail? Never happen.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', ' ')I don't expect TPTB to get their BAU very much in the future.
They will do the right thing as soon as they get done trying everything else.
I am looking at what might possibly work, not what might pass the current congress. If they can convert coal to liquid fuel at a profit by growing corn let them ,but don't mandate or subsidize it. Few tractors run on coal so it is only useful as a heat source at the refinery or for electricity to run the pumps.
Keeping the status quo in my view is out of the question. What the best alternative course is, is the question.

[basil_hayden]

No, government will not.

Conservation measures will be used to patch the gap (which, as you've pointed out elsewhere, is the elimination of waste otherwise known as the livelihoods of 40% of us) in liquid fuels. Plenty of room to carpool.

This will kick the can down the road until it can't be.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '
')
A very large gas tax would be required, as studies have shown that the price of gasoline has very little effect on miles traveled and the fuel economy of the overall vehicle fleet.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', ' ')If that were true the UK and the Euro zone would all be charred ruins.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', ' ')Now compare a small regular increase announced in advance so that car buyers could make accurate estimates of the tax they would pay over the life of the car. You might go a dime at a whack or perhaps a quarter, either way it would take quite a while to get up to UK prices of $7.23 a gallon. I don't see any implosion from that.

[Subjectivist]

Liquid fuels are just a very convenient energy storage system. We have discussed manufacturing liquid hydrocarbons from other fossil fuels like coal or methane. We have discussed making liquid fuels from CO2+H2O+Energy, we have discussed storing energy as manufactured Methanol made from coal or biomass, we have discussed storing energy as Ammonia made from H2O+N2+Energy.

We have done this multiple times over the last 5-10 years. Conclusion, all of the above methods will work at certain price points. So long as world peak is not proven beyond a shadow of a doubt nobody is going to shift their infrastructure to any of these alternative manufactured liquid fuels because jumping too soon in a global economy will destroy the local economy.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', ' ')If that were true the UK and the Euro zone would all be charred ruins.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '
')
"A very LARGE. gas tax would be required, as studies have shown that the price of gasoline has very little effect on miles traveled and the fuel economy of the overall vehicle fleet."

You just posted that a $.50 increase went hardy noticed.

[dashster]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '
')Long-haul trucking to short-haul to rail? Never happen. We spent decades abandoning track throughout the US, so existing US railroad infrastructure lacks sufficient capacity to accommodate any increase in demand for rail freight.

[vtsnowedin]

The rail system in the USA is far from gone. In fact it is doing quite well in spite of competition from pipelines and trucks.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'U').S. railroads still play a major role in the nation's freight shipping. They carried 750 billion ton-miles by 1975 which doubled to 1.5 trillion ton-miles in 2005.[3][4] In the 1950s, the U.S. and Europe moved roughly the same percentage of freight by rail; by 2000, the share of U.S. rail freight was 38% while in Europe only 8% of freight traveled by rail.[5][6] In 1997, while U.S. trains moved 2,165 billion ton-kilometers of freight, the 15-nation European Union moved only 238 billion ton-kilometers of freight.[7]

U.S. railroads are separated into three classes based on annual revenues:

Class I for freight railroads with annual operating revenues above $346.8 million (2006 dollars)
Class II for freight railroads with revenues between $27.8 million and $346.7 million in 2000 dollars
Class III for all other freight revenues.

These classifications are set by the Surface Transportation Board.

In 1900, there were 132 Class I railroads. Today, as the result of mergers, bankruptcies, and major changes in the regulatory definition of "Class I," there are only seven railroads operating in the United States that meet the criteria for Class I. As of 2011, U.S. freight railroads operated 139,679 route-miles (224,792 km) of standard gauge in the U.S. Although Amtrak qualifies for Class I status under the revenue criteria, it is not considered a Class I railroad because it is not a freight railroad.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', ' ') Conclusion, all of the above methods will work at certain price points.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dashster', 'W')ell we built the first tracks across the country back in the 1800's before there were cars, trucks or diesel locomotives. We should be able to build more track, no matter what.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'T')he rail system in the USA is far from gone.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', ' ')The key point is that the automatic increases are set in law

[sparky]

.
I've always though much good could come out of an improvement of the railways and creation of a federal high voltage grid both entities are worm eaten private systems in much need of rationalization

[Subjectivist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', ' ') Conclusion, all of the above methods will work at certain price points.

[toolpush]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'T')he rail system in the USA is far from gone.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', ' ')Also Americans adapt faster then Europeans.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('toolpush', ' ') Now, not if, but when the class 1s finish double tracking their main lines, lower tracks so double stacked containers can fit under all bridges, and miles of old previously poorly maintained track is upgraded, what will the picture look like then?