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Re: Land redistribution and revolution

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Re: America on the brink of a Second Revolution

Unread postby gollum » Fri 15 Oct 2010, 16:53:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', ' ')a new publicly owned banking system started with all the money that went to TARP.



Socialism????? 8O 8O 8O



Possibly, if a business is truly to big to fail shouldn't it be seen as more of a public utility, and treated as such? If forced to pick I pick socialism over fascism by a landslide.
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Re: America on the brink of a Second Revolution

Unread postby gollum » Fri 15 Oct 2010, 16:55:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('efarmer', '
')My point is that whomever intends to rule is going to have to restore confidence in the very top of the financial institutions or I submit they will sit at a desk like a sack of potatoes and slowly rot away.


I have very strong issues with the idea of someone intending to "rule" the US. And the very idea of a "ruler" in the US is abhorrent to me. :x The very concept of a person hired by us to work on our behalf being our "ruler" should be rejected by every American, in my opinion.



Well put!
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Re: America on the brink of a Second Revolution

Unread postby rangerone314 » Fri 15 Oct 2010, 17:41:17

I figured out the difference between non-rich Democrats and non-rich Republicans.

The former are fools and the latter are tools.
An ideology is by definition not a search for TRUTH-but a search for PROOF that its point of view is right

Equals barter and negotiate-people with power just take

You cant defend freedom by eliminating it-unknown

Our elected reps should wear sponsor patches on their suits so we know who they represent-like Nascar-Roy
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Re: America on the brink of a Second Revolution

Unread postby Timo » Fri 15 Oct 2010, 17:44:39

In order to fully understand what the word "politics" means, you have to break it down into its component parts. The first part is poli, or poly means many. Tics are blood sucking parasites. Ergo, politicians are a bunch of blood sucking parasites.
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Re: America on the brink of a Second Revolution

Unread postby Timo » Fri 15 Oct 2010, 17:48:05

Sorry for these, everyone, but Ranger got me started on political jokes. What's the difference between Agusto Pinochet and a jock strap?

One's a dictator, and one's a dick toter.
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Re: America on the brink of a Second Revolution

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 15 Oct 2010, 20:01:32

I don't know about making 'em do the 'prep walk.' Does is really fix anything or is it just revenge?

I think there is a fair chance that we have crossed some tipping point. The financial system requires a fairly high level of trust in order to work. If that trust is systematically destroyed then the fiat money loses its underlying support. It may be that we are sort of like Wily Coyote, run off a cliff and looking down into the gulch, but haven't started to fall yet. Just stunned in that moment of realization between "Oh Shit!" and "Thud."

The only reason to punish these guys is to restore the system. Do we even really want to do that even if we could?

Perhaps the smarter ones are not worrying about how we got here, or how to skewer the bastards. They are thinking towards the future, pondering what path to take.

Any ideas????
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Re: America on the brink of a Second Revolution

Unread postby Ludi » Fri 15 Oct 2010, 20:07:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '
')Any ideas????



Didn't think you wanted any......

:?:
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Re: America on the brink of a Second Revolution

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 16 Oct 2010, 11:00:55

I'm always up for ideas.

Well usually anyway.

Sometimes I get so frustrated and depressed I just want to scream.
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Re: America on the brink of a Second Revolution

Unread postby Ludi » Sat 16 Oct 2010, 12:42:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '
')Sometimes I get so frustrated and depressed I just want to scream.



I understand. For me it's the feeling of isolation - that I want to help people or work with people to change, but I don't have friends who are into that and I don't have the wherewithal to go search for them. You have the advantage of living in town so your opportunities of finding kindred spirits are much larger. Also you live in a more progressive area than I do. Here people are still trying to live in the mid-20 century. :( I think there is SO much for people to do in groups if they have the impulse to change the way they live. Isolated individuals or households, not so much. :cry:
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Re: America on the brink of a Second Revolution

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 16 Oct 2010, 15:07:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '
')Sometimes I get so frustrated and depressed I just want to scream.



I understand. For me it's the feeling of isolation - that I want to help people or work with people to change, but I don't have friends who are into that and I don't have the wherewithal to go search for them. You have the advantage of living in town so your opportunities of finding kindred spirits are much larger. Also you live in a more progressive area than I do. Here people are still trying to live in the mid-20 century. :( I think there is SO much for people to do in groups if they have the impulse to change the way they live. Isolated individuals or households, not so much. :cry:


Don't bet on it Ludi.

I live around a lot of people. Nice liberals. But they have all spent their lives living in condos and don't know how to do a blessed thing. And I mean NOTHING. They are dangerous to be around if you have to move something because they don't know how to lift. For example, if I pick up a folding table in the middle, balanced, one of them will run over and grab an end "to help." If you try to get one to assist, well then you need a 5 minute committee meeting. Reset a circuit breaker? No a friggin' chance. Seriously.

They have nice ideas but no clue on how to effect them. And their critical thinking skills are no better than any one else.

I spent an awful lot of effort last year on the 350.org campaign. It was pretty much a bust. As long as I willed life into it I could get interest. But as soon as I stood back to see if the fire had caught, it went stone cold. My wife tried to revive the interest in our local group this year. Not one supporter stepped forward.

There is no isolation so complete as in the depth of a city. Why do you think I hang here?
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Re: America on the brink of a Second Revolution

Unread postby Ludi » Sat 16 Oct 2010, 15:14:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', ' ') As long as I willed life into it I could get interest.



Oh man, I know that feeling. Like shoving a 5 ton block up a greased glass hill. :(

Sorry you haven't had luck finding interested local folks. Seems like there would be something going.....oh well, maybe later when things get worse..... :(
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Re: America on the brink of a Second Revolution

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Sat 16 Oct 2010, 15:25:39

I think if you saw the Tea Party take over, then you'd have a real revolution that would recruit people from all walks of life. It might not be that hard, just set up an industrial tractor trailer sized wood chipper with a sign over the chute that says "Meet Sarah Palin!" Hell, you could even charge admission.
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Re: America on the brink of a Second Revolution

Unread postby Ludi » Sat 16 Oct 2010, 15:59:29

Shame on you, Preston! That's just mean!
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Re: America on the brink of a Second Revolution

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Sat 16 Oct 2010, 16:01:44

Check out this Tea Party woman on Bill Mahr

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MT_FBLD ... r_embedded

It seems like the Tea Party vision of America is something between the Soviet Union and North Korea.

According to her, the only thing the federal government can spend money on is weapons. That will add up to a very rich tiny elite, no middle class whatsoever, and everyone else living in dormitories without hot water.

Anybody feel like living on thin rice gruel with a fish head once a week?

I'm not really sure what to make of the fact that a guy from the WSJ came out and told her she was wrong on most of her claims. I mean, the Tea Party is owned by Fox/Newscorp (more or less) and the WSJ is literally owned by Fox/Newscorp. Of course, now Glenn beck is telling his fans to support the American Chamber of Commerce, which lobbied for TARP, so apparently Glenn no longer thinks TARP paved the road to the death camps. So the message is confused, but the dishonesty, stupidity, craziness, and incompetence never end.
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Re: America on the brink of a Second Revolution

Unread postby Cloud9 » Sat 16 Oct 2010, 17:09:32

That was the premise wasn’t it? We grew the government to protect us. First it was foreign enemies then it was domestic enemies. Then it was poverty. Then it was our ignorance. Then it was racism. Then it was drugs. Then it was capitalism. Then it was terrorism. Now we must grow the government to protect us from ourselves. There is no end to this logic until we all are controlled. That is impossible. Totalitarianism is the wet dream of a megalomaniac.

To shrink it back, we have to limit it to protecting us from foreign enemies. China will step up to the plate soon enough.
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Re: America on the brink of a Second Revolution

Unread postby Oneaboveall » Tue 02 Nov 2010, 01:41:22

This is my first post on here. I know that sharing of articles is prefered to posting of links, but I may have posted a bit too much of this Interesting article called "The Coming Middle Class Anarchy" by Gonzalo Lira:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')True story: A retired couple I know, Brian and Ilsa, own a home in the Southwest. It’s a pretty house, right on the manicured golf course of their gated community (they’re crazy about golf).

The only problem is, they bought the house near the top of the market in 2005, and now find themselves underwater.

They’ve never missed a mortgage payment — Brian and Ilsa are the kind upright, not to say uptight 60-ish white semi-upper-middle-class couple who follow every rule, fill out every form, comply with every norm. In short, they are the backbone of America...When HAMP — the Home Affordable Modification Program — was unveiled, they applied, because they qualified: Every single one of the conditions applied to them, so there was no question that they would be approved — at least in theory...It was a months-long struggle — but finally, they were approved for HAMP: Their mortgage period was extended, and the interest rate was lowered. Even though their home was still underwater, and even though they still owed the same principal to their bank, Brian and Ilsa were very happy: Their mortgage payments had gone down by 40 percent. This was equivalent to about 15 percent of their retirement income. So of course they were happy.

However, three months later, out of the blue, they got a letter from their bank, Wells Fargo: It said that, after further review, Brian and Ilsa had in fact not qualified for HAMP. Therefore, their mortgage would go back to the old rate. Not only that, they now owed the difference for the three months when they had paid the lowered mortgage — and to add insult to injury, they were assessed a “penalty for non-payment”.

Brian and Ilsa were furious — a fury which soon turned to dour depression: They tried contacting Wells Fargo, to straighten this out. Of course, they were given the run-around once again...But here’s where the story gets ominous—here’s where the Jaws soundtrack kicks in:

Brian and Ilsa — the nice upper-middle-class retired couple, who always follow the rules, and never ever break the law — who don’t even cheat on their golf scores — even when they’re playing alone (“Because if you cheat at golf, you’re only cheating yourself”) — have decided to give their bank the middle finger.

They have essentially said, F***it...“We follow the rules, and look where that’s gotten us?” she says, furious and depressed. “Nowhere. They run us around, like lab rats in a cage. This HAMP business was supposed to help us. I bet the bank went along with the program for three months, so that they could tell the government that they had complied — and when the government got off their backs, they turned around and raised the mortgage back up again!”

“And charged us a penalty,” Brian chimes in. The non-payment penalty was only $84—but it might as well been $84 million, for all the outrage they feel. “A penalty for non-payment!”...Ilsa is quietly, constantly insisting that they stop paying the mortgage altogether: “Everybody else is doing it—so why shouldn’t we?”

A terrible sentence, when a law-abiding citizen speaks it: Everybody else is doing it — so why don’t we?

Right now, people are having a little hissy-fit over the robo-signing scandal, and the double-booking scandal (where the same mortgage was signed over to two different bonds), and the little fights between junior tranches and senior tranches and the servicer, in the MBS mess.

But none of that s*** is important.

What’s really important is Brian and Ilsa: What’s really important is that law-abiding middle-class citizens are deciding that playing by the rules is nothing but a sucker’s game.

Just like the poker player who’s been fleeced by all the other players, and gets one mean attitude once he finally wakes up to the con? I’m betting that more and more of the solid American middle-class will begin saying what Brian and Ilsa said: F***it.

F*** the rules. F*** playing the game the banksters want you to play. F*** being the good citizen. F*** filling out every form, f*** paying every tax. F*** the government, f*** the banks who own them. F*** the free-loaders, living rent-free while we pay. F*** the legal process, a game which only works if you’ve got the money to pay for the parasite lawyers. F*** being a chump. F*** being a stooge. F*** trying to do the right thing — what good does that get you? What good is coming your way?
F***it.

When the backbone of a country starts thinking that laws and rules are not worth following, it’s just a hop, skip and a jump to anarchy.

TV has given us the illusion that anarchy is people rioting in the streets, smashing car windows and looting every store in sight. But there’s also the polite, quiet, far deadlier anarchy of the core citizenry — the upright citizenry — throwing in the towel and deciding it’s just not worth it anymore.

If a big enough proportion of the populace — not even a majority, just a largish chunk — decides that it’s just not worth following the rules anymore, then that society’s days are numbered: Not even a police-state with an armed Marine at every corner with Shoot-to-Kill orders can stop such middle-class anarchy.

Brian and Ilsa are such anarchists — grey-haired, well-dressed, golf-loving, well-to-do, exceedingly polite anarchists: But anarchists nevertheless. They are not important, or powerful, or influential: They are average — that’s why they’re so deadly: Their numbers are millions. And they are slowly, painfully coming to the conclusion that it’s just not worth it anymore.

Once enough of these J. Crew Anarchists decide they no longer give a f***, it’s over for America — because they are America.


http://www.businessinsider.com/coming-middle-class-anarchy-2010-10
When the banksters want something, our policymakers move with the speed of Mercury and the determination of Ares. It’s only when the rest of us need something that there is paralysis.

How free are we today with the dominance of globalist capital and militarized security apparatus?
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Re: America on the brink of a Second Revolution

Unread postby Ludi » Tue 02 Nov 2010, 06:29:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oneaboveall', '
')
Brian and Ilsa are such anarchists — grey-haired, well-dressed, golf-loving, well-to-do, exceedingly polite anarchists: But anarchists nevertheless. They are not important, or powerful, or influential: They are average — that’s why they’re so deadly: Their numbers are millions. And they are slowly, painfully coming to the conclusion that it’s just not worth it anymore.



These well-to-do are not "average" and they don't personify the "middle class" and they haven't cared about the well-being of their fellow Americans, except their fellows in the well-to-do class. These sorts generally vote Republican and they have only been interested in getting their pile of goodies and to hell with anyone else.
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Re: America on the brink of a Second Revolution

Unread postby Pops » Tue 02 Nov 2010, 08:05:07

One, posting just a couple snips is more "legal" than posting the whole thing...

Now having said that, I think this is the point:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hat’s really important is that law-abiding middle-class citizens are deciding that playing by the rules is nothing but a sucker’s game.


People are deciding the cards are stacked against them, the rules designed to protect them from more powerful interests have been eliminated either in fact or in application and the new rules, whether bankruptcy, election spending, and who gets a bailout are written by the very interest the are supposed to regulate.

Even the legal framework that ensures title to our homes has been subverted.

I'm here to say it's time to give them the finger! They survive on your money, starve them.
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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Re: America on the brink of a Second Revolution

Unread postby Oneaboveall » Tue 02 Nov 2010, 12:50:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'O')ne, posting just a couple snips is more "legal" than posting the whole thing...

Now having said that, I think this is the point:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hat’s really important is that law-abiding middle-class citizens are deciding that playing by the rules is nothing but a sucker’s game.


People are deciding the cards are stacked against them, the rules designed to protect them from more powerful interests have been eliminated either in fact or in application and the new rules, whether bankruptcy, election spending, and who gets a bailout are written by the very interest the are supposed to regulate.

Even the legal framework that ensures title to our homes has been subverted.

I'm here to say it's time to give them the finger! They survive on your money, starve them.


Exactly. This isn't a good thing and, while I don't think a revolution is in the cards, I think we're going to see a lot more random violence at some point. People who are disillusioned and frustrated will be more prone to desperate measures and radicalization. I've already read about white supremiscists (on boards like Stormfront and others) planning to go to the homeless tents to recruit new members. It could be idle talk or it could be the start of a dangerous trend.
When the banksters want something, our policymakers move with the speed of Mercury and the determination of Ares. It’s only when the rest of us need something that there is paralysis.

How free are we today with the dominance of globalist capital and militarized security apparatus?
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Re: America on the brink of a Second Revolution

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Tue 02 Nov 2010, 13:23:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oneaboveall', 'E')xactly. This isn't a good thing and, while I don't think a revolution is in the cards, I think we're going to see a lot more random violence at some point. People who are disillusioned and frustrated will be more prone to desperate measures and radicalization. I've already read about white supremiscists (on boards like Stormfront and others) planning to go to the homeless tents to recruit new members. It could be idle talk or it could be the start of a dangerous trend.
It's part of the large strategy of exporting jobs, denying people education, taking away their unemployment benfits, then saturating them with right wing propaganda blaming minorities. This is an actual nationwide Fascist recruiting drive led by the GOP. Not everyone will buy in, in fact Hitler said he only needed the stupidest 10% to seize power. Once they reach the point where questioning Glenn Beck will gets your tires slashed and suddenly everyone on the cul-de-sac gives you the cold shoulder, at that point, the game has changed.

That might actually be a much more realistic "doom" scenario than many that get floated here.
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