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Powerdown: The Solution to Peak Oil

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.
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Re: Powerdown: The Solution to Peak Oil

Unread postby MonteQuest » Sun 02 Dec 2007, 20:16:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'O')r, out of no other choice in the matter.

Monte, I’m thinking that “you” as in any one person, group or government, faced with acting on a No Other Choice situation will be way too late in acting.

I suppose that is the source of my Macro Doomerism as well as my micro optimism.


I agree Pops, but as Duende said, "those seeds of understanding have to at least be planted for us to have any hope."
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Re: Powerdown: The Solution to Peak Oil

Unread postby Smudger » Sun 02 Dec 2007, 20:45:03

the real short/medium term crunch is the US public petrol usage. however I heard a couple of weeks ago at a climate change briefing that is everyone in the US switched to 40 mpg cars and above there would be no need to import any oil - obviously wont happend over night but compelling. my VW polo bluemotion is doing nearly 72 mpg and is catching on here so it possible.
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Re: Powerdown: The Solution to Peak Oil

Unread postby Pops » Sun 02 Dec 2007, 20:55:06

Thank you for pointing out that quote Monte.

Though I might mention I said much the same earlier in this thread:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'M')y solution is to continue to talk about the problem to those that will listen, at least plant a seed with those that won’t listen and do those things that you think should be done to power down.

Above all; walk your talk.


Nevermind ...
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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Re: Powerdown: The Solution to Peak Oil

Unread postby Ludi » Sun 02 Dec 2007, 21:01:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Nicholai', '
')How do you propose to sell this to American politicians?



I'm not interested in selling it to American politicians.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ow do propose we advocate for less consumption by each individual and still understand that our monetary system requires constant growth?



I'm not interested in perpetuating our monetary system.
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Re: Powerdown: The Solution to Peak Oil

Unread postby Ludi » Sun 02 Dec 2007, 21:05:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '[')
I read somewhere that if all resources were shared equitably, the standard of living for the world would be like that in Bangladesh.




Can you give me that in Kwh of electricity and gallons of gasoline?

Thanks.
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Re: Powerdown: The Solution to Peak Oil

Unread postby Nicholai » Sun 02 Dec 2007, 22:11:03

Than who are you planning to take up this 'challenge?'
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Re: Powerdown: The Solution to Peak Oil

Unread postby MonteQuest » Sun 02 Dec 2007, 23:40:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '[')
I read somewhere that if all resources were shared equitably, the standard of living for the world would be like that in Bangladesh.


Can you give me that in Kwh of electricity and gallons of gasoline?


Boy, if that equity statement is true, we are in for quite the downsizing. Still shows a huge disparity. Hope I didn't drop any zeroes.


Electricity Bangladesh in kwh/per capita= 133 million kwh

Electricity United States in kwh/per capita= 12.6 billion kwh

Annual gasoline consumption per capita US: = 464 gallons

Annual gasoline consumption (liters per person) = 3 liters


Bangladesh

Population: 150,448,339

GDP $336.1 billion

GDP - per capita $2,300

Population below poverty line: 45%

Electricity - consumption: 19.49 billion kWh

(Only 18% of the population has access to electricity.)

Oil - consumption: 85,000 bbl/day

Labor force - by occupation: agriculture: 63%

Annual motor gasoline consumption (liters per person) = 3

United States

Population: 301,139,947

GDP : $13.06 trillion

GDP - per capita : $43,800

Labor force - by occupation: agriculture 0.7%

Population below poverty line: 12%

Electricity - consumption: 3.816 trillion kWh

Oil - consumption: 20.73 million bbl/day

Annual gasoline consumption per capita: = 464 gallons
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Re: Powerdown: The Solution to Peak Oil

Unread postby Revi » Sun 02 Dec 2007, 23:52:04

3 liters of gas per year. Wow! That's going to hurt. I think I'd use mine for the chainsaw. I'll get an oxcart to drag the wood around. This is going to be a drag, literally. We'll use only our LED lights, powered by solar, and cook everything on the woodstove. We can listen to the radio and go to bed early.
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Re: Powerdown: The Solution to Peak Oil

Unread postby MonteQuest » Mon 03 Dec 2007, 00:11:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', '3') liters of gas per year. Wow! That's going to hurt. I think I'd use mine for the chainsaw. I'll get an oxcart to drag the wood around. This is going to be a drag, literally. We'll use only our LED lights, powered by solar, and cook everything on the woodstove. We can listen to the radio and go to bed early.


Well, we can' t expect that 3 liters to be definitive. Lots of variables. Besides, gasoline consumption doesn't determine SOL, or does it?

The world, on average, uses 179 liters per person or 47 gallons.

47/464= 90% reduction in use to meet the world average= no more cars.

From some older data...

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he U.S.'s average of 1447 liters of gasoline used per capita exceeds the world average liters of gasoline used (of 154.4 liters) by close to a factor of 10 (9.4 times more).
Last edited by MonteQuest on Mon 03 Dec 2007, 00:22:35, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Powerdown: The Solution to Peak Oil

Unread postby Lighthouse » Mon 03 Dec 2007, 00:17:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'W')ell, we can' t expect that 3 liters to be definitive. Lots of variables.

The world, on average, uses 179 liters per person or 47 gallons.

47/464= 90% reducition in use to meet the world average= no more cars.


So I have to get this 70's muscle car I dream of right now....


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Re: Powerdown: The Solution to Peak Oil

Unread postby MonteQuest » Mon 03 Dec 2007, 00:37:13

One of the other things I see in a powerdown world is a standardization of containers and in metric sizes.

Make all half liter/liter/2 liter etc glass containers exactly the same.

Make them deposit/returnable/reusable..

No more disposable containers of any kind. This includes grocery store containers for mustard, mayo, etc.

No more disposable aluminum cans or plastic bottles.

No more disposable plastic or paper bags. Carry your own cloth bag for shopping.

Make cardboard boxes all the same with no advertising so they can be reused if not damaged.

In other words, stop the throwaway society. Eliminate the need to recycle. Make things cradle to cradle.

Cradle to Cradle

SanFrancisco banned plastic bags. Wal mart is going to follow, I hear.
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Re: Powerdown: The Solution to Peak Oil

Unread postby RedStateGreen » Mon 03 Dec 2007, 00:45:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '[')
I read somewhere that if all resources were shared equitably, the standard of living for the world would be like that in Bangladesh.




Can you give me that in Kwh of electricity and gallons of gasoline?

Thanks.


I belong to a group that might interest you: Riot for Austerity: 90% reduction.

We are trying to reduce our energy usage by 90% (ie., 10% of the current national average). The link shows the exact numbers if you're interested. I've been on the challenge since June, and it is a challenge, but an attainable one. :)
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('efarmer', '&')quot;Taste the sizzling fury of fajita skillet death you marauding zombie goon!"

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Re: Powerdown: The Solution to Peak Oil

Unread postby cpgarden » Mon 03 Dec 2007, 01:03:36

There are people practicing powerdown:

http://casaubonsbook.blogspot.com/2007/ ... eek-1.html
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Re: Powerdown: The Solution to Peak Oil

Unread postby MonteQuest » Mon 03 Dec 2007, 01:25:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cpgarden', 'T')here are people practicing powerdown:

http://casaubonsbook.blogspot.com/2007/ ... eek-1.html


Oh, Sharon's blog is a must read. She is sharp. Her blog is on my list of daily reads.

MQ
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Re: Powerdown: The Solution to Peak Oil

Unread postby Ludi » Mon 03 Dec 2007, 11:33:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Nicholai', 'T')han who are you planning to take up this 'challenge?'



People like you and me.
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Re: Powerdown: The Solution to Peak Oil

Unread postby Ludi » Mon 03 Dec 2007, 11:37:27

Thank you for those numbers, Monte.


RedStateGreen, I'll check that out. Quit a challenge! 8O
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Re: Powerdown: The Solution to Peak Oil

Unread postby Ludi » Mon 03 Dec 2007, 11:49:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lighthouse', '
')So I have to get this 70's muscle car I dream of right now....





But I think this thread is about what we need to do NOW, not in the future. :)


But, maybe I'm confused.


Monte, is this thread about the future, or is it about NOW?
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Re: Powerdown: The Solution to Peak Oil

Unread postby RedStateGreen » Mon 03 Dec 2007, 17:01:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'T')hank you for those numbers, Monte.


RedStateGreen, I'll check that out. Quit a challenge! 8O


It is. Sharon's in that group, too, in fact she runs the Yahoo email group for that.

I'm not anywhere near 90% reduction but I've learned a lot from being in the group.
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Re: Powerdown: The Solution to Peak Oil

Unread postby Alcassin » Mon 03 Dec 2007, 21:23:07

MQ, you just answered to my question.

Powerdown + population reduction.
This is logical and the only answer...

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')ake cardboard boxes all the same with no advertising so they can be reused if not damaged.


Advertising consumption is loss of resources anyway.
Peak oil is only an indication and a premise of limits to growth on a finite planet.
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Re: Powerdown: The Solution to Peak Oil

Unread postby MonteQuest » Tue 04 Dec 2007, 02:48:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', ' ')Monte, is this thread about the future, or is it about NOW?


Now is the future. "The future is now."- Jiddu Krishnamurti

It is about both, is it not? What this generation does today will decide the future.
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