[VMarcHart]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AlterEgo', 'H')ow do we stop all-out treatment of individuals who cannot be saved;

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', ' ') From your quotes of Catton, it doesn't seem like he sees no hope, no matter what we do.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AlterEgo', 'M')edical ethics is one topic that needs to be discussed on PO.com that hasn't already been discussed.

[MrBean]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AlterEgo', 'M')edical ethics is one topic that needs to be discussed on PO.com

[AlterEgo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'C')arrying capacity must always trump morals or ethics.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AlterEgo', ' ')The topic has not been discussed.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AlterEgo', '
')The topic has not been discussed. A search for "Medical ethics" yields 18 glancing blows, and "utilitarianism" yields 23 posts, mostly about food and other topics. Can you post something without an argument in it, Monte?

[MrBean]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '
')Carrying capacity must always trump morals or ethics.

[Ghog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBean', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '
')Carrying capacity must always trump morals or ethics.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ghog', '
')So you are saying we should throw caution to the wind and forever remain on the edge of the Planet's ability to sustain life

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBean', '
')Sorry but that sounds really stupid. There is nothing as ethical as deep practical sense - fronesis in Greek - of what carrying capacity means. A deep practical sense that of course cannot be put into any moral code, since carrying capacity and ways to adapt to it keep allways changing.

[VMarcHart]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ghog', 'I') would prefer to learn from the experience and not continue the trend of stripping the Planet bare.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBean', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '
')Carrying capacity must always trump morals or ethics.

[MrBean]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBean', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '
')Carrying capacity must always trump morals or ethics.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBean', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBean', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '
')Carrying capacity must always trump morals or ethics.

[MrBean]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ghog', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBean', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '
')Carrying capacity must always trump morals or ethics.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '
')I think what Monte means is the concept of carrying capacity has to always be foremost in our minds, ahead of any morals or ethics which conflict with that concept.

[BigTex]

I think this is a slightly different point, but this discussion reminds me of how silly many environmentalists come across in their chic green views and ideas of Mother Nature as sort of a folk singer-like character who wants us all to drive hybrids.

I never gave an oink about environmentalism before I became aware of peak oil, in part because the typical environmentalist I encountered didn't really seem to have a clue about some of the deeper environmental issues whose solutions have nothing to do with conservation and recycling.

Obviously, though, if you take Catton's overshoot analysis seriously, you are by definition sort of a "survivalist environmentalist" (but I still think that the chic green liberals trying to get a date with Mother Earth are goofy).

[nobodypanic]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBean', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '
')Carrying capacity must always trump morals or ethics.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', ' ')This is what you become when you place nature above all morals and ethics which conflict with that concept.