[AgentR]

As a followup to the comment about catastrophic plans and discouraging early care. I can't really see how:

1yr
$100/mo (insurance) = $1200
doctor visits (2) = $300
lab work (some) = $200
strips / meter / generic drug xyz = $1000

is cheaper than
$600/mo = $7200
doct = $40
lab = $40
stuff = $300

And yet... you tell pharmacists to fill the script whether the insurance covers it or not, and they look at you like you've lost your mind. Tell doctors that you don't have coverage for scripts and they react like you'll be auctioning your first born within days.

Seeing as how this proves that its a sociology problem, and not a medical one, I think its going to take a lot more than "health care reform" in the US to cause people to properly manage their own health.

It could also be a failure of basic arithmetic; but really, if people can't add 4 numbers, plotting their blood sugar readings and taking their meds on a steady schedule isn't very likely.

Closing thought... what does that shiny new bmw or hybrid cost each month after you roll in all its expenses? No one blinks an eye.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', '
')Why pay that much? Do you really think you'll need almost $5000 of medical care per year?

[Narz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', '
')Why pay that much? Do you really think you'll need almost $5000 of medical care per year?

[Ludi]

I'm mostly worried about stroke or heart attack with some worry about mental illness requiring hospitalization.


Surgery is not expensive ( a few thousand dollars), it is hospitalization that is expensive.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', ' ')If I had a ruptured spleen or something I guess I'd probably get it removed & set up a payment plan to pay over time.

[Loki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', '
')Now, what you may have been doing is simply relying on the tax payer to provide the stated bronze plan implicitly, because you know, that if you did get cancer, and consequently lost your ability to work and ending up on state support; it is exactly the tax payer that would be paying for your chemo, surgery, or other drugs. Perhaps you entertained the rationalization that if you got one of these crippling diseases that you'd just go out in your backyard and eat a bullet; most do not do so. And a contract between you and the society saying that YOU would be different and do so, would not be binding.

So you get to suck it up, pay your $100/mo in health taxes, and ditch the implicit reliance upon the taxpayer in the event of your unlikely disease-ification.

[AgentR]

They do set up payment plans, but honestly speaking, most never come even close to paying off their bill. In the end, the tax payers and insured patients end up paying their bill.

As to bankruptcy...well, the neighborhood family doc might not be to keen on forwarding your account to a collection agency; but the lab, surgical clinic, and pharmacy will do it in a heartbeat if they think they can't get whats owed them any other way.

[AgentR]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Loki', 'Y')our math assumes a low level of health problems. A more serious problem, or series of problems over 2+ years, would still utterly bankrupt a low income worker with a policy like this.

[Bas]

Loki, some of the things I mentioned in my previous post were things (and just some of the things) that I think the current bill will open up the door to regulate and hence will make healthcare cheaper for the great masses.

[Loki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Loki', 'Y')our math assumes a low level of health problems. A more serious problem, or series of problems over 2+ years, would still utterly bankrupt a low income worker with a policy like this.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', ' ')ITS A CATASTROPHIC ILLNESS.

[Narz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I')'m mostly worried about stroke or heart attack with some worry about mental illness requiring hospitalization.

[Ludi]

I plan to try to avoid hospital. I don't think they generally help people. I'm convinced my sister's mental illness has been made much worse by her being hospitalized.

You're not allowed to just leave the hospital after surgery. My dad had to stay in the hospital for a week after his bypass. This cost about $100,000. The surgery only cost a few thousand dollars - he had to prepay that; the surgeon billed separately from the hospital. My dad has never been "chronically ill." He is quite healthy for a 79 year old, just the clogged arteries and a little osteoporosis. He has eaten healthily and jogged since about 1975. He still jogs nearly every day.

Just FYI, strokes and heart attacks often don't just conveniently kill you. It might take you weeks or months of extreme discomfort to die of these. Just like folks did in Ye Olden Days.

I know I also would like to conveniently drop dead when the time comes. But reality is not like that.

[Narz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'J')ust FYI, strokes and heart attacks often don't just conveniently kill you. It might take you weeks or months of extreme discomfort to die of these. Just like folks did in Ye Olden Days.

I know I also would like to conveniently drop dead when the time comes. But reality is not like that.

[JJ]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I')'m mostly worried about stroke or heart attack with some worry about mental illness requiring hospitalization.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', '
')Well, I guess I'll have to hire Roccman to come kill & eat me should I ever suffer a heart attack.

[Ludi]

Some people do suddenly drop dead at a ripe old age. My grandmother on my mom's side did.

[evgeny]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', 'I')f it means more health care to people who didn't have it before, won't that increase demand for health care services?

Someone refresh me.

What happens in economics to the price of a service/product when you drastically increase the demand for service/product, without drastically increasing the supply (doctors, nurses in this case) to match?

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evgeny', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', 'I')f it means more health care to people who didn't have it before, won't that increase demand for health care services?

Someone refresh me.

What happens in economics to the price of a service/product when you drastically increase the demand for service/product, without drastically increasing the supply (doctors, nurses in this case) to match?

[evgeny]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evgeny', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', 'I')f it means more health care to people who didn't have it before, won't that increase demand for health care services?

Someone refresh me.

What happens in economics to the price of a service/product when you drastically increase the demand for service/product, without drastically increasing the supply (doctors, nurses in this case) to match?