[pablonite]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('davep', ' ')But this would be the case in any collapse scenario unless you're an advocate of butchering all refugees.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pablonite', '
')Lawmaker: Climate change just ruse to control population

[Jotapay]

Ludi, I don't think that's true overall. The UN has very aggressive family planning policies. Here is a clip I cut out of a documentary about the TED conference. This professor modeled fertility and life expectancy. Check out his 2-minute presentation.

<tin foil alert>I think it's really interesting to note that Africa didn't respond to family planning policies and AIDS just happened to conveniently and dramatically reduce their life expectancy.</tin foil alert>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHoX-NDQXsU

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jotapay', 'L')udi, I don't think that's true overall.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('davep', '
')I think the zombie horde problem could be partially resolved due to the hugely increased requirement for agricultural workers. It'd be a delicate time for sure, as these people would need to be fed before they become productive. But this would be the case in any collapse scenario unless you're an advocate of butchering all refugees.

[Jotapay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'M')aybe the UN has tried to control population, but they have done a totally lame-ass job at it. I don't know why anyone is worried about their Global Warming Master Control Plan having any more of an effect than their population control plan.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jotapay', ' ')it shows that the UN has actually had pretty darned good success since 1962.

[Jotapay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jotapay', ' ')it shows that the UN has actually had pretty darned good success since 1962.

[Last_Historian]

The relative rate of population growth actually peaked in the 1960's, but the problem is that demographic systems have immense inertia so the absolute rate continues to be substantial. Even under the UN's Low estimate, global population will not peak until 2040.

Another problem is that it seems that one of the most reliable way to actually cut down on fertility rates is industrialization. Africa has high fertility rates because it is poor. They will fall if we manage to get fast economic development rolling there, like it got rolling in China in the 1970's and in India from the 1980's, but then we obviously just get another problem.

Incidentally, pretty much the only poor countries that have managed to cut down their fertility rates to around just the replacement level rate are those with substantial social welfare systems (one major reason for having children is for old-age security) and good women's rights (educated urban women have far fewer children than illiterate rural women).

@mos,

I completely agree, varieties of neo-feudalism will likely become another highlight of collapse. Probably the dominant one if history from the fall of Rome to post-1990 North Korea is any guide.

[Olaf]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nother problem is that it seems that one of the most reliable way to actually cut down on fertility rates is industrialization.

[pablonite]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jotapay', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jotapay', ' ')it shows that the UN has actually had pretty darned good success since 1962.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pablonite', '
')They can even convince people to surrender all control over their life into the hands of green communists to save mother earth.

[davep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'T')hat paragraph opens up quite a lot of issues. For instance, one can see landowners becoming the new lords of the manor in which ex-urbanites become the new serfs, human beasts of burden who work the farmer's land (because the fuel isn't available for the tractors anymore) in exchange for barely enough scraps to survive. Is that preferable to "green communism"?

[Jotapay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pablonite', 'I') don't think we've seen any real effort by TPTB to control population yet because they haven't had their hands on the global population controls for very long now.

[pablonite]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jotapay', 'D')id you see how fertility rates have plummeted in third world countries in the presentation?

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pablonite', 'G')reen fascism better describes the marriage of state and business?

[Stonemason]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Last_Historian', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jotapay', 'H')ow can the government solve a problem like societal collapse when they can't seem to do anything well that is even slightly complicated? Why should individuals trust any government when the government has shown that it is only concerned with its own survival?

[Jotapay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Stonemason', 'M')y point being, if individuals cannot do something, neither can a group of individuals who separate themselves and label themselves a separate species (called "the government") who claim to have different properties than other human beings and different rights which contradict all logical reasoning.

[Jotapay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pablonite', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jotapay', 'D')id you see how fertility rates have plummeted in third world countries in the presentation?